Grimrock

Kadaeux wrote:There is nothing flawed about it except your understanding of what experience means.

Except for the part where it actively encourages bad play. That's pretty flawed.

Furthermore, your "rebuttals"... Seriously, do you actually believe that? Because I totally just saw you use a sentence, so I cannot believe you seriously thought that was a rebuttal. Whipping up a potion during combat is "following a formula", you say dismissively. And a fireball isn't? All the spells and potions and such are following formulas. If you seriously expect me to believe that casting a poison shield isn't contributing to winning a fight, but throwing a damage spell is... Nah, no one could actually believe that. That's not a thing anyone believes. That's a thing you're saying without even risking considering it, because you started out highly emotionally invested in claiming that the system was perfect. Now if you ever acknowledge anything wrong with the system as you understand it, you'll feel bad. So you'll never acknowledge it. The devs could post and say "wow, this system has totally not worked the way we thought it would, it's stupid", and you'd just argue with them and call them names.

The system is broken because it does not meaningfully measure contribution, and more generally because contribution to a dungeon crawl is not best measured over the course of a single kill.

You can convince me this is defensible if you can show a video in which four melee characters kill a team of four skeletons and all four characters get full XP for each skeleton. Good luck!

Well they don't have to get full XP it would average out.

I would be more concerned if as the other thread infers, XP was fixed and thus lost.

he is saying it is
90,90,90,90
or all the way down to...
90,45,45,45
when it should fall down to
225,45,45,45

or a more balanced
150,70,70,70 or something like that

Yes. That's what I mean by actively encouraging bad play. If you each kill a monster in turn, you get a little over half the XP you'd have gotten if each of you had used weaker attacks on each monster and you'd all gotten a hit in.

Guys, I'm just playing the game without fretting over XP gain and all my characters are levelled evenly, with only the mage roughly half a level behind everyone else.

I really don't see the issue here.

I didn't either, but I think there is one.

I also did not really have an issue with how much XP you get and it was even for me, just use you mage more and it will catch up quickly as it can kill 2 or 4 times more critters with spells that go down corridors.

You can get too much XP when you hit the hard timed running puzzle, which I think is another bug they are fixing, maybe. I forced myself to not use that exploit too much or the game would get drab fast.

seebs wrote:

Kadaeux wrote:There is nothing flawed about it except your understanding of what experience means.

Except for the part where it actively encourages bad play. That's pretty flawed.

Furthermore, your "rebuttals"... Seriously, do you actually believe that? Because I totally just saw you use a sentence, so I cannot believe you seriously thought that was a rebuttal. Whipping up a potion during combat is "following a formula", you say dismissively. And a fireball isn't? All the spells and potions and such are following formulas. If you seriously expect me to believe that casting a poison shield isn't contributing to winning a fight, but throwing a damage spell is... Nah, no one could actually believe that. That's not a thing anyone believes. That's a thing you're saying without even risking considering it, because you started out highly emotionally invested in claiming that the system was perfect. Now if you ever acknowledge anything wrong with the system as you understand it, you'll feel bad. So you'll never acknowledge it. The devs could post and say "wow, this system has totally not worked the way we thought it would, it's stupid", and you'd just argue with them and call them names.

The system is broken because it does not meaningfully measure contribution, and more generally because contribution to a dungeon crawl is not best measured over the course of a single kill.

You can convince me this is defensible if you can show a video in which four melee characters kill a team of four skeletons and all four characters get full XP for each skeleton. Good luck!

Break down in tears and cry some more.

If you honestly cannot grasp the very concept of learning and experience (Which you clearly cannot as you are comparing casting a formulaic poison shield with trying to use an offensive spell which is expected *realistically speaking* to hit a moving target.)

Do I think OTHER aspects could use more XP bonuses? Sure.

But you aren't doing that. YOU are demanding that people WHO HAD NO PART in a kill deserve experience for something they had no part in.

Perhaps you'd just like the Dev's to give you maximum skill points from the start. Perhaps you'd just like the Devs to make your people unkillable with giant swords of kill everything on this level forever.

Because you're complaining about a mechanic that isn't broken in any way shape or form because you are all whiny about your characters not having the same experience as one another!


EDIT:

In short. You are bitching and complaining something is broken because you don't like it, not because it is broken. It is working exactly as it should and as the developers designed it to so stop bitching. You don't like it, make your own.

I haven't read every post on this thread, but am I right in understanding that the thing you want "fixed" is that you want all characters to hit some kind of experience roof before the game is over?

I'd rather have plenty of headroom and let different characters grow in different directions than have everyone become demigods. Maybe it would have been better to keep the experience goodies hidden. =)

Sol_HSA wrote:I haven't read every post on this thread, but am I right in understanding that the thing you want "fixed" is that you want all characters to hit some kind of experience roof before the game is over?

I'd rather have plenty of headroom and let different characters grow in different directions than have everyone become demigods. Maybe it would have been better to keep the experience goodies hidden. =)

It's great as is.

I think you are both pushing each edge of the extremes

k, "my game is so perfect everything you say is sacrilege, so I will use my holy flameboy powers"
s, "there is a bug, and I want everything to be even for my OCD"

answer.. yes there is maybe a bug that will maybe appear fixed in a readme at some stage?

Spathi wrote:I think you are both pushing each edge of the extremes

k, "my game is so perfect everything you say is sacrilege, so I will use my holy flameboy powers"
s, "there is a bug, and I want everything to be even for my OCD"

answer.. yes there is maybe a bug that will maybe appear fixed in a readme at some stage?

It's not OCD, I should point out, it's autism. But it's not so much that I want it to be even. It's that I shouldn't get nearly twice as much XP for a long and elaborate dance in which I carefully avoid using my skills effectively as I do for doing the obvious and efficient thing.

If the XP-per-mob were fixed, and the allocation of that XP changed, that would be a sort of annoying thing. And no matter how much he tries to be an internet tough guy and show off how manly he is, Mr. K. has not actually presented any actual argument as to why the person who's providing the healing in a fight shouldn't get XP, and the person who's doing damage should. That is not how party-based games work, or indeed, basically any game which tries to reward "contribution".

Seriously, is being insulting an "argument" now? Does this actually work? Does calling people names really make you win arguments? 'cuz it sure doesn't look like it from here.