Grimrock

I'm thinking of splitting this wine discussion into its separate thread, but it seems it might be easier to split the original topic to its own thread instead.. =)

badhabit wrote:

jamie wrote: When users think of emulators, they think of programs like Dosbox or zsnes. These applications run as virtual machines and are slow, having to emulate each processor instruction. Wine does not do any CPU emulation - hence the name "Wine Is Not an Emulator."
Some people argue that since Wine introduces an extra layer above the system a Windows application will run slowly. While technically true, Wine is no different from any other software library in this regard; even newer versions of Windows must load extra resources to support older applications.
Importantly, the combination of Wine and Unix can sometimes be faster than Windows itself. This is especially true when the system has good drivers and the application isn't exposing any Performance Related Bugs.

Once again WINE is NOT an emulator. OK thanks...

Fyi linux and mac os have the ability to support case inventive file systems.

Seems primarly you think emulation means only hardware emulation...but that's not the general meaning of emulation.
Also, the formulation that wine is an extra layer which is not required for general software usage on a linux system is an indication of a emulation (the same is true for the shim layer in windows 7 which emulates XP, 2000 etc behaviour). That there are technical case-insensitive filesystem avaialble is nice but irrelevant. The practical non-existing usage of such file systems proves the point that case-insensitvity is a alien concept for a unix environment.

So, once and for all: Wine IS for a good part an emulator, if you like it or not
PS: performance differences (in both directions!) are also indications for a (imperfect) emulated characteristic/functionality

I think someone needs to learn the difference between a API layer and Emulation. The api layer is needed because DIrect X has no native API for a linux/ Mac os based system..... IT's a Microsoft only api. The Direct X comparability binaries for Wine have the Open gl/ AL counter parts to translate A direct X direct input direct sound into OPEN AL /Open GL Something that Linux / Mac os understands. The whole case sensitive and insensitive file system is irreverent and has no bearing on the the decussion. NO wine is not a emulator its more abstraction layer. Sence its just translating different functions. The performance difference is because the OS and hardware have to do the work twice. For any function called in direct x and passed though wine and then executed on linux or mac os have to be sent back and re translated back to the corresponding direct x functional call that it would recognize.

jamie wrote:

badhabit wrote:

jamie wrote: When users think of emulators, they think of programs like Dosbox or zsnes. These applications run as virtual machines and are slow, having to emulate each processor instruction. Wine does not do any CPU emulation - hence the name "Wine Is Not an Emulator."
Some people argue that since Wine introduces an extra layer above the system a Windows application will run slowly. While technically true, Wine is no different from any other software library in this regard; even newer versions of Windows must load extra resources to support older applications.
Importantly, the combination of Wine and Unix can sometimes be faster than Windows itself. This is especially true when the system has good drivers and the application isn't exposing any Performance Related Bugs.

Once again WINE is NOT an emulator. OK thanks...

Fyi linux and mac os have the ability to support case inventive file systems.

Seems primarly you think emulation means only hardware emulation...but that's not the general meaning of emulation.
Also, the formulation that wine is an extra layer which is not required for general software usage on a linux system is an indication of a emulation (the same is true for the shim layer in windows 7 which emulates XP, 2000 etc behaviour). That there are technical case-insensitive filesystem avaialble is nice but irrelevant. The practical non-existing usage of such file systems proves the point that case-insensitvity is a alien concept for a unix environment.

So, once and for all: Wine IS for a good part an emulator, if you like it or not
PS: performance differences (in both directions!) are also indications for a (imperfect) emulated characteristic/functionality

I think someone needs to learn the difference between a API layer and Emulation. The api layer is needed because DIrect X has no native API for a linux/ Mac os based system..... IT's a Microsoft only api. The Direct X comparability binaries for Wine have the Open gl/ AL counter parts to translate A direct X direct input direct sound into OPEN AL /Open GL Something that Linux / Mac os understands. The whole case sensitive and insensitive file system is irreverent and has no bearing on the the decussion. NO wine is not a emulator its more abstraction layer. Sence its just translating different functions. The performance difference is because the OS and hardware have to do the work twice. For any function called in direct x and passed though wine and then executed on linux or mac os have to be sent back and re translated back to the corresponding direct x functional call that it would recognize.

From the application point of view, wine on top of a unixoid system tries to behave like a directX + windows PC. This emulated system even falsificates the OS identify string if asked by an application. Typical behaviour of an emulation.

Mono is an example for a real API re-implementation which is not lying to the applications by handing over wrong OS version information.

You guys probably do realize that 'emulator' and 'simulator' are terms that have various meanings for different people? =)

ya i know its different meanings. But calling wine a emulator is like calling windows a great operating system... Dos box is a example of a emulator because it has to emulate old pc code instruction at the cpu level. The ironic part is With the definitions he gives Direct X itself is a emulator because its injecting another layer on top of the hardware layer for devices to interact with software. TBH Every piece of software driver for anything on your pc could be classified as this. Anyways. NO it does not try to behave like windows its just Program execution of one language into another. Seriously what part of any of the calls are not executed in software but don't at the api layer and every function has to be supported by both is that hard to understand?

Changing the os idenity string is moot and is not considered emulation people have done that on android iphones windows dos based systems for awhile to get older software to install on newer operating systems or to make it run on older. So your just going to with that statement lump windows into the same catagorgy as a emulator because you can change the os string in just about any program with it.


Mono is just a open source way to bring .net api to mac and unix based systems .

To re-post what I said back in February before the topic got derailed into discussions about emulators....

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PROMISED IOS VERSION?

Seriously, either tell us it's still coming or tell us it's not. The lack of a statement either way is rather annoying for the many people who have been patiently waiting for it for well over a year now.

It would surely bring in an absolute tonne of additional revenue and the porting costs would be relatively low as the assets, design etc is already done.

Just bung a few directional arrows for movement at the bottom of the screen, replicate the mouse inputs with touch input, and voila.

News to the ios version?

we're all a bit curious about what happened to this - my guess is either larger-than-expected compatibility/performance problems, or else some sort of licensing/legal problem

Please, please, please... news for iOS version?

Play Grimrock (or Grimrock 2 ) with my ipad would be great!

At this point I'm assuming Gromrock for IOS is indefinitely on hold.