Grimrock

LiveInABox wrote:Other things...I missed not being able to switch between two weapon configurations and not being able to drag cast spells. Mages in general were just much more versatile and more powerful in Grim 2 (could easily be the most powerful in the game).

Having two weapon setups is nice, but I dislike the drag style spell casting system. I mean in tight spot it just requires too much concentration, while clicking the runes one by one allows for other actions in between... I understand that the gesture method works better for touchscreens. I still don't like though..

About Mages: For some reason I've find that the mages in both LoG's leave me wanting something more. It's not the damage; They do good damage -- Rather its the way that the magic works in general. First, it's too predictable and reliable: Every single spell always works if you just know the rune combo and your character is at high enough level. Second, There is lack of fine tuning the spells -- I mean that a fireball is always the same (for a character level) with a little bit of random damage on top. I would really like to be able to adjust the strength of a spell (and mana spent) depending on the situation.

Anyway, That is how I feel.. I just realized that this is off topic, so I will not go any further.

CremionisD wrote:

LiveInABox wrote:Other things...I missed not being able to switch between two weapon configurations and not being able to drag cast spells. Mages in general were just much more versatile and more powerful in Grim 2 (could easily be the most powerful in the game).

Having two weapon setups is nice, but I dislike the drag style spell casting system. I mean in tight spot it just requires too much concentration, while clicking the runes one by one allows for other actions in between... I understand that the gesture method works better for touchscreens. I still don't like though..

About Mages: For some reason I've find that the mages in both LoG's leave me wanting something more. It's not the damage; They do good damage -- Rather its the way that the magic works in general. First, it's too predictable and reliable: Every single spell always works if you just know the rune combo and your character is at high enough level. Second, There is lack of fine tuning the spells -- I mean that a fireball is always the same (for a character level) with a little bit of random damage on top. I would really like to be able to adjust the strength of a spell (and mana spent) depending on the situation.

Anyway, That is how I feel.. I just realized that this is off topic, so I will not go any further.

I couldn't disagree more on the drag spell system. If you are in combat then it is right that it should require more concentration. I really like that about it. The 1 click button method on the other hand is too slow and cumbersome. Sure you can prepare a single spell early but just one spell...What other actions would you do inbetween the few seconds it takes clicking 4 or so runes anyway? You wouldn't, you would complete the spell. Bottom line, if you mess up the spell in Grim 2 and it fizzles out then so what, try again. I did play through on my laptop without a mouse but I would still miles prefer the spell system in Grim 2. Drawing the spells just feels right.

As for fine tuning the spells, this aint the game for that. You can't pause combat here, this is no heavy, tactical RPG.

LiveInABox wrote:As for fine tuning the spells, this aint the game for that. You can't pause combat here, this is no heavy, tactical RPG.

That is definitely false: http://grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9579

Very few aspects of the game are unavailable for fine tuning thanks to Grimrock dev's and Modding community.

As for "pausing combat" ... that's exactly what the Force Field allows you to do.

You can prepare spells in advance in Grimrock 2 the exact same way you can in Grimrock 1, you just need to have one-click casting turned off in the options.

Azel wrote:

LiveInABox wrote:As for fine tuning the spells, this aint the game for that. You can't pause combat here, this is no heavy, tactical RPG.

That is definitely false: http://grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9579

Very few aspects of the game are unavailable for fine tuning thanks to Grimrock dev's and Modding community.

As for "pausing combat" ... that's exactly what the Force Field allows you to do.

It is not false, I was talking about the retail version. And in this game I don't see any need whatsoever for any fine tuning spells.

The force field...yeah maybe. To be honest I never cast that spell once. Never needed to. All out offense seems the way to go in this game.

LiveInABox wrote:It is not false, I was talking about the retail version.

What you actually said was, "As for fine tuning the spells, this aint the game for that." Grimrock, the game, most certainly is a game for fine tuning spells, which is why it is happening. What you call the "retail version" is nothing more than a Campaign that is one of many, as seen on the Modding forums. And the entire retail campaign can be downloaded, source code and all, and re-published with a fine-tuned spell system if anyone so desires. So yes, what you said is very much false.

LiveInABox wrote:And in this game I don't see any need whatsoever for any fine tuning spells.

That's a better statement, since it simply applies to your own personal opinion as opposed to your previous attempt to pigeonhole the entire game itself. Others feel differently about the magic system, which is why people are developing a custom spells.

Grimrock is a game for fine tuning spells, even within the main campaign. It's quite alright if you prefer the game as-is. The point here is that if someone would prefer a more fine tuned system, whether it be for spells, weaponry, combat, puzzles, or even boss-battles... then Grimrock fully supports this and more. So it's not really valid to say, "this aint the game for that." No harm done

Azel wrote:

LiveInABox wrote:It is not false, I was talking about the retail version.

What you actually said was, "As for fine tuning the spells, this aint the game for that." Grimrock, the game, most certainly is a game for fine tuning spells, which is why it is happening. What you call the "retail version" is nothing more than a Campaign that is one of many, as seen on the Modding forums. And the entire retail campaign can be downloaded, source code and all, and re-published with a fine-tuned spell system if anyone so desires. So yes, what you said is very much false.

LiveInABox wrote:And in this game I don't see any need whatsoever for any fine tuning spells.

That's a better statement, since it simply applies to your own personal opinion as opposed to your previous attempt to pigeonhole the entire game itself. Others feel differently about the magic system, which is why people are developing a custom spells.

Grimrock is a game for fine tuning spells, even within the main campaign. It's quite alright if you prefer the game as-is. The point here is that if someone would prefer a more fine tuned system, whether it be for spells, weaponry, combat, puzzles, or even boss-battles... then Grimrock fully supports this and more. So it's not really valid to say, "this aint the game for that." No harm done

The game is what it is, what the developers intended. This game doesn't require fine tuning of spells. I just don't see why you would need to. It can be done, great. It aint exactly BG 2 or some other similar in depth d&d epic CRPG that could really benefit.

I have nothing against mods either, they can improve games no end (e.g. KOTOR 2, mess to greatness) but this is a fairly simple game as far as the combat goes.

LiveInABox wrote:The game is what it is, what the developers intended.

The developers have actually contributed quite a bit to modifying the game to make it more than what it started off to be:
http://grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9573
http://grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9505

So, you are wrong again.

LiveInABox wrote: It can be done, great. It aint exactly BG 2 or some other similar in depth d&d epic CRPG that could really benefit.

The fact that it can be done in this game is what is being discussed. Just because you now want to pretend that the impact of doing it isn't as meaningful to you as in other games has no bearing on the fact that your original assertion was wrong. The discussion was not about fine tuning in Grimrock vs fine tuning in other games.

Azel wrote:

LiveInABox wrote:The game is what it is, what the developers intended.

The developers have actually contributed quite a bit to modifying the game to make it more than what it started off to be:
http://grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9573
http://grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9505

So, you are wrong again.

Some asset packs and 1 dev offering to implement changes on request to about 3 people?!? No I am not wrong and you are completely missing the point yet again. I won't explain why because I have the feeling you are the sort of person who must be right all the time...

Asset packs and custom code that helped lead to fine tuning spells (among many other things) - which you denied Grimrock supported. You have absolutely no idea what you are trying to interject in this thread.

I don't think anyone cares if you openly admit to your complete failures in this discussion. I am merely pointing out observable facts while watching you juggle self-defeating red herrings. It's not about "being right" ... it's about understanding that both Grimrock 1 & 2 fully support fine tuning many game aspects.

And the "one dev" that you are trying to dismiss in that thread has done a lot more to expand and fine tune Grimrock than what your blind eyes fail to see. I would post more links but based on your deficiencies thus far it would clearly be a waste of time.