- Strength is a dead stat. It is never worth taking over Vitality or Dexterity. Strength does not boost damage in any kind of significant amount, and the only reason you would need to carry more weight is to wear Heavy Armor, which is inferior to just focusing on Evasion to begin with. It also does not offer any elemental resistance.
- Willpower is a dead stat. It boosts neither damage nor defense, just how many spells you can cast without resting. Solution? Don't bring a Mage and avoid this bad stat.
- Protection is strictly inferior to Evasion in all situations. You can Evade anything Protection works against, and even when stacked Protection just doesn't do enough to justify the cost of doing so (weight / lost skill points for Proficiencies).
- Vitality is better the earlier you get it due to how HP are awarded on level up, but continues to be great when stacked later because it also gives huge elemental resists (start the game w/ 30%~ vs. 2 elements and watch it grow). Vitality is the best defensive stat in the game because raw HP is the only defense that works against all sources of damage (traps, melee, elemental, falling, etc...), and elemental resists are the only way to reduce damage you can't Evade.
- Dexterity is great whenever you get it, and can also be stacked as high as you can manage to get great resists vs. the 2 elements Vitality doesn't cover. It does not actually improve Missile or Thrown weapons, but it does provide the 2nd best defensive stats in the game (Evasion and Resistance) and as such is still the best choice for those party members after Vitality given your other choices will do practically nothing.
- Weapons and Elemental skills are the best value per point invested. Weapons gain 1 dmg per 2 skill points and 1 Accuracy per 1 skill point spent, in addition to all the breakpoint bonuses you get like bonus Dexterity, special attacks, etc... All other skills (Athletics, Armor, Assassination, Spellcraft, etc...) ONLY reward you at breakpoints. When you focus on weapon skills you will see a return with each level up, even if you didn't hit a breakpoint.
- The best defense is a good offense. What matters is making sure the other guy dies before you do, so maximizing your Accuracy and Attack Power while becoming a great dancer is the fastest way to win fights. Using ranged weapons to start damaging monsters before they even get in dancing range is also great.
- Throwing is strictly inferior to Missile weapons on a Rogue because Missiles line gives Dex bonuses at breakpoints and Throwing gives Strength, which as we've discussed is a dead stat while Dex is a great defensive stat even in the back row.
- Missile Weapons (unlike most weapon skills) can be on 2 characters without losing out on a good weapon for both characters thanks to the Crossbow being perfectly viable as an endgame weapon alongside the best regular Bow type, and as a bonus using its own ammo source.
- The Aggressive trait is a great value, being worth 16 points of Strength or 8 skill points (2 entire level ups on a Human!) in damage, which applies to all weapon types. It makes tons of sense to pair this with a fast
and extremely accurate weapon like a Dagger, or weapons that can't miss period like Missiles.
Whew, so it is entirely possible I'm mistaken and have just spread misinformation with the above assumptions. If this is the case please correct me and I'll edit the post, and possibly revise my stat optimized party. That being said, here is what I've got:
---- Front Line ----
Lizard Fighter
Maces (DUN DUN DUN!!!!!!!!!!!)
Agile + Healthy
10 Str | 20 Dex | 16 Vit (21 at 50 Maces) | 9 Will
Lizard Rogue
Daggers
Aggressive + Healthy
10 Str | 16 Dex (20 at 50 Daggers) | 18 Vit | 9 Will
---- Back Line ----
Lizard Rogue
Missile Weapons (Shortbow into Crookhorn Longbow)
Aggressive + Healthy
10 Str | 16 Dex (20 at 50 Missile Weapons)| 18 Vit | 9 Will
Lizard Rogue
Missile Weapons (Sling into Crossbow)
Aggressive + Healthy
10 Str | 16 Dex (20 at 50 Missile Weapons) | 18 Vit | 9 Will
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Party Strategy
DUMP ALL POINTS INTO YOUR WEAPON SKILLS. That is all.
Seriously though, you don't need anything else because these weapon skills were selected specifically because they boost Dexterity (Missiles and Daggers) or Vitality (Maces) and allow you to have a top tier weapon with each character. To get the starting stats I mentioned above during character creation you must dump into the stat your weapon skill does not boost, so the Missile and Dagger users max out Vitality, then get +1 bonus to Dexterity from their initial 4 points in their weapon. Reverse this for the Mace user, max their Dexterity first as it will be more difficult to boost later on (and they need the early accuracy boost) and they get shit tons of HP from using Maces anyway.
Maces? I thought Maces suck? Everyone says they are garbage. Well, they do have their tradeoffs, in the form of slow general attack speed and Accuracy malus, but when you hit, you hit HARD, and they offer you the best defensive stat in the game with their skill up break points (all Vitality all the time, baby). Once you reach 50 weapon skill with your Mace user they can smash heavy armor opponents to pieces even without triggering a special attack, and will have more HP than god. As far as the Accuracy loss, this is why I went with Agile instead of Aggressive in the Fighter's talents. Maces get plenty of raw Attack Power from the weapons themselves, so the bonus Dexterity offsets the Accuracy malus a bit in the early game (2 of the 5 points, which are both dwarfed anyway by your +50 Accuracy total for getting 50 skill) and boosts your Evasion and Resists, making it a perfect compliment to your Vitality boosting skill line. The argument could be made to just make the Fighter a Rogue using the Fist Dagger alongside your other front line Rogue using the Assassin's Dagger, since Aggression and your weapon skill in general overshadow the raw weapon damage difference, but I'd have to play through the entire game with each party set up to figure out which is really better. I suspect the difference would not be very noticeable in either direction. Finally, if something dies in one hit because you ignored its armor and hit it with a special attack while using the strongest weapon in the entire game, your attack speed doesn't really matter, does it?
So what do you do about non-weapon skills? Nothing. Armor Proficiencies aren't worth it, they will cost you being able to get to 50 in your weapon skills, which already boost your offense significantly and award you with the best defensive stats in the game at certain breakpoints. Your Dagger user doesn't need Assassination as getting behind monsters is not worth the effort when you have 2 very powerful Missile users in the back row constantly ripping things apart at range. The Dodge and Athletic trees are in general are not nearly as useful as focusing on your weapon exclusively, but once you get 50 in your weapon you could dump extra points in them.
No Mage? Blasphemy, I know, and it will cause you to need to equip a torch in 1 hand of your Dagger user instead of a shield of some kind at some points, but it really isn't that big of a deal. The thing is, Mages are really a niche utility class in a game that doesn't need a niche utility class due to how small your parties are and how effective raw physical beat downs are. Remember that the point of this discussion / guide is optimization, not viability. Go beat the game with an all Mage party if you want, I'm sure you can do it, but all the same I wouldn't want to be the guy clicking 3 times to attack with each character thousands of times...
All Lizards? I don't consider the other races worth using with the possible exception of the Humans. Lizards trade away 1 dead stat for 2 of a good front line / defensive stat, but lose 1 Skill Point at creation. In the end, you won't see a HUGE difference between them and all Human (still get 50 weapon skill at level 13 either way) party, but we're going for optimization here and free Dex with what is essentially no penalty at all is optimum. Again, go beat the game with an all Bug & Minotaur party if that is how you want to do things, but from an optimization standpoint they are terrible because they specialize in dead stats (Strength and Willpower).
Armor? Use the best you can find that doesn't require Proficiencies. Proficiencies are a huge drain on your skill points that could have gone towards having lots more Accuracy and Power in your weapons, and Heavy Armor is literally HEAVY, making that character unable to carry much besides the armor they are wearing unless you then also invest in the dead stat Strength. The thing is, even if you wore the heaviest armor, you would not want to tank an Ogre or be capable of doing so for very long the first time you met one. The best defense is killing things before they get next to you, followed by dancing them to death as fast as possible. After that, raw HP, Resists, and Evasion in that order of importance for when you just can't avoid taking damage. Protection is by far the worst defensive stat and it is your primary reward for bothering with armor Proficiencies.
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Rip Me Apart
There are probably facts I am ignorant of that mean this party is not nearly the well oiled miracle machine I think it would be. I've played this party down to floor 3 and thought it was just spiffy how fast I managed to get an appropriate weapon to each person, and I can't wait to see how hilarious this gets once I've got a Shortbow on one guy and the Crossbow on the other. Already my Mace user doesn't miss very often, and my Dagger user basically never does (woo +10 accuracy). Killing the Skeleton Phalanxes on floor 2 was slightly tricky compared to being able to Mage them to death, but due to Maces high base damage and Aggression's huge early game damage boost to my Missile Weapon and Dagger user they went down to standard dance hall technique easily. Remember, even before you have access to the Sling you do (relatively for the early game) lots of damage throwing Rocks, Knives, and Shurikens w/ Aggression. My previous party went down to floor 6 and killed the Troll before I decided to really dig deep into how the mechanics of Grimrock really work, so I'm hoping between my own experience and what I've learned on this forum my assessment of how to optimize a party is fairly accurate. Let me know what you think
