Grimrock

I played LOG on steam for linux and loved it. Was waiting for sequel but I see that so far it has not been released on linux. Fantastic job by the way. I never even played dungeon crawling games (this was my first one) and I instantly loved it. Some of the puzzles really kicked my ass... but nontheless loved it.

Obviously making games is neither cheap nor easy; there are many practical considerations. If creating the first linux port was not justified in the end (too much work/technical problems/did not pay for itself), then I can understand the developers choosing not to create a linux version the 2nd time around. After all you guys have families to feed, I am sure everyone can understand that.

The reason why I am making this post is to simply ask if we can expect a linux version in the future. If its coming, then Ill keep on top of it and keep checking back. If however, you guys have decided to not go with penguin this time around, then I would like to ask you guys make an announcement so those of us who are interested would at least know whats going on (i.e. not expect it and move on). I am sure most would agree that is a reasonable request.

Thanks for taking the time to read!

P.S. Before someone suggests wine, Ill say right upfront that I am interested in supporting native linux game development and not clunky workaraounds that rarely result in a good game experience. Thank you!

deusexm1 wrote: P.S. Before someone suggests wine, Ill say right upfront that I am interested in supporting native linux game development and not clunky workaraounds that rarely result in a good game experience. Thank you!

While your general request is reasonable, your last part dismissing Wine seems to be overly harsh, ungrateful & not fair against WINE. Technically WINE results often already in a good or even excellent experience performance and compatibility wise for many applications and games. Wine should be also considered a implementation of a stable industry standard API and not an emulation or clunky workaround, as it performs sometimes better than the Windows variant or the "native" linux port (which are built on the fragile/clunky/fragmented framework of everchanging linux libs).

As long as the development & deployment of desktop "native" applications under linux is even considered by Torvalds "a pain in the ass", the usage of WINE sounds like a very reasonable solution.

badhabit wrote:

deusexm1 wrote: P.S. Before someone suggests wine, Ill say right upfront that I am interested in supporting native linux game development and not clunky workaraounds that rarely result in a good game experience. Thank you!

While your general request is reasonable, your last part dismissing Wine seems to be overly harsh, ungrateful & not fair against WINE. Technically WINE results often already in a good or even excellent experience performance and compatibility wise for many applications and games. Wine should be also considered a implementation of a stable industry standard API and not an emulation or clunky workaround, as it performs sometimes better than the Windows variant or the "native" linux port (which are built on the fragile/clunky/fragmented framework of everchanging linux libs).

As long as the development & deployment of desktop "native" applications under linux is even considered by Torvalds "a pain in the ass", the usage of WINE sounds like a very reasonable solution.

I respect your opinion but we will have to agree to disagree. My experience with wine has been very poor. It can run some programs, no one denies that, but at the same time there are a ton of glitches and small things that can take hours to fix for the unexperienced user. For that reason I avoid it like the plague and buy native only. If it works for you then you can use it all you want.

Mac users dont need to sit for hours tweaking things so they work right, neither do windows users. If i pay for the software id like to have the same convenience.

deusexm1 wrote:Mac users dont need to sit for hours tweaking things so they work right, neither do windows users. If i pay for the software id like to have the same convenience.

I completely agree on this point, users deserve and expect such an experience. But sadly, even (or especially) a native game for linux (which linux? driver? kernel? DE? etc.) typically doesn't provide this experience, known and standard on other matured platforms.

For instance, take a look on the thousands of problems with NATIVE ports, still existing despite the years of polishing, ressource investment and beta phase with the linux steam client (or grimrock1 sound/graphic/input devices/etc support). I would argue this is an inherent characteristic of the non-standardized & non-desktop focussed linux ecosystem. Which is somewhat compensated in the context of WINE, where a game can rely on stable & widely supported API/ABIs. So, from my experience often WINE gaming provide a more convenient experience and also makes the live significant more easy for the game developers. As long as our ecosystem is so fragmented and incapable of providing a real matured platform experience, I believe Carmack is right.

deusexm1 wrote:Mac users dont need to sit for hours tweaking things so they work right, neither do windows users. If i pay for the software id like to have the same convenience.

Then purchase the proper platform or STFU? Software contains a list of components required to run it. Read it, adhere to it, or move on

Azel wrote:

deusexm1 wrote:Mac users dont need to sit for hours tweaking things so they work right, neither do windows users. If i pay for the software id like to have the same convenience.

Then purchase the proper platform or STFU? Software contains a list of components required to run it. Read it, adhere to it, or move on

Linux is the proper platform. Not everyone wants to use a clunky, security whole ridden, inefficient OS.

deusexm1 wrote:

Azel wrote:

deusexm1 wrote:Mac users dont need to sit for hours tweaking things so they work right, neither do windows users. If i pay for the software id like to have the same convenience.

Then purchase the proper platform or STFU? Software contains a list of components required to run it. Read it, adhere to it, or move on

Linux is the proper platform. Not everyone wants to use a clunky, security whole ridden, inefficient OS.

I'm a big proponent of open source myself and I believe we could have had for a long time an open source alternative to established desktop OS/platforms (namely, Windows and MacOS). But sadly, currently linux is not this platform, it failed for 20 years to mature to an usable desktop platform, for developers and users alike. It is stuck in the tinklering stage of unix from the 70/80s: fine for unix admins, geeks and hackers... but not beyond that. Required standardisation and focuss is still missing, it doesn't help at all to deny this cultural & technical problems. Some people hope that SteamOS might bring the needed break-through, some hope that systemd might help or docker...but currently we are totally not here. Maybe we will get an usable desktop OS from a completely different side: recently MS showed impressive steps in direction of Open-source, maybe we will get earlier open source Windows than a functioning linux desktop...

deusexm1 wrote:Linux is the proper platform. Not everyone wants to use a clunky, security whole ridden, inefficient OS.

How are they inefficient when most games are made on those platforms? Games play smooth and overall amazingly on both my Windows machines and my MacBook Pro; so maybe you're the one with the problem if you can't get the OS to stop running clunky.

Also, why is security such an issue for your PC Gaming? Afraid someone is gonna steal your Long Sword or something?

Azel wrote:

deusexm1 wrote:Linux is the proper platform. Not everyone wants to use a clunky, security whole ridden, inefficient OS.

How are they inefficient when most games are made on those platforms? Games play smooth and overall amazingly on both my Windows machines and my MacBook Pro; so maybe you're the one with the problem if you can't get the OS to stop running clunky.

Also, why is security such an issue for your PC Gaming? Afraid someone is gonna steal your Long Sword or something?

@badhabit; Debian and debian based distros are all the standardization I need; ubuntu/linux mint and now SteamOS... etc.

@Azel

1. Funny but at the same time sad to see a mac user bash linux when it comes to games. Not even like 5-6 years ago mac was in the same spot as linux as far as games were concerned. Did you go on mac forums and tell those people that they were using the "wrong" platform also?

2. You believe windows is efficient? .

3. Security is an issue because someone stole my social security number and committed ID theft, which meant i spent 2 years dealing with banks and and other institutions. When i use linux I dont have to worry that my next CC purchase info is going to some basement dwelling hacker.

For me, its a platform that is superior in every way minus the software availability. But that is getting better. In fact, I have every windows including 7, and 8 (lol @ metro btw. Nice tablet interface for desktop)... I choose not to use it b.c its trash and I wont be buying any more.

You can spend your money on Windows and windows antivirus software. Ill spend my money on games.

deusexm1 wrote:3. Security is an issue because someone stole my social security number and committed ID theft, which meant i spent 2 years dealing with banks and and other institutions. When i use linux I dont have to worry that my next CC purchase info is going to some basement dwelling hacker.

These arguments have always intrigued me. Linux isn't "more secure" just by existing. People said the same thing about Macs, until they got popular, and now people also write trojans/viruses/browser intrusions/etc for them. Using Linux is safer at the moment, sure. The moment Linux becomes popular enough to attract 'native' development of games, it also attracts malware activity. I use Linux for, well, pretty much everything except gaming and web browsing (I do any bank stuff or management of personal info on Linux, though), but I actually don't want people to make games for it. And I certainly don't want Steam on my Linux box.