Grimrock

First of, this is a brilliant game, really awesome. I haven't been this immersed in ages.

I must commend the puzzles on their logic. Between sudoku's and a support job where solving difficult issues, Grimrock 2 surely was one of the better brain teasers. All puzzles were fair, most were not terribly difficult once you learn how to think within the grimrockverse.

The secrets were far more difficult but most were telegraphed in a way that greatly reduces blind searching. Whether you could see an island or hear a door opening, missing secrets is usually the fault of the player. I had to bang my head against some of them, but overall I knew where secrets were before I solved them. By merely playing the game, I ended with 75 out of 77 secrets. That's awesome design.

I don't know the reasoning but personally, buried treasures seem to replace the irrelevant LoG1 treasures that only held value for a particular steam achievement. Finding buried treasure is one of the most awesome experiences when done right. Compared to zelda or fable, grimrock 2 clearly has the best treasure mechanic.

There are a few negatives too. These are all imho:
1) The legend of Kilhagan feels redundant. He doesn't compare to Toorum. 1.1) 2) There are no redundant treasure levels like the Vault in LoG1. Neither are there secrets within secrets within secrets. The power orb design demands you go everywhere. EG the cemetary+crypt could have been void of power orbs. Imagine that area as entirely optional. Opening the gates "merely" invites more treasure hunting.
3) "armor is all over the place". My thoughts on this can be found in the relevant thread. The game could have been slightly more interesting by optimizing where armor can be found. Especially the mirror set should not be completed in mid-endgame area.

any6 wrote:1) The legend of Kilhagan feels redundant. He doesn't compare to Toorum.

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The testament of the final boss should have been signed Kilhagan.

any6 wrote:1.1)

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neither do I get the trickster/island master link. I may have missed something but all three big bosses are essentially the island master. Makes no sense to me.

Dr.Disaster wrote:

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Legend of Kilhagan tells the becoming of an island master but not necessarily the current one. By reading the testament it becomes clear that there have in fact been a lot of island masters before the one you just beat and one of them was Kilhagan.

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The island master is present in the Lindwurm battle as rider but he does not do more than summon all the critters. Once his pet dragon bites the dust he teleports out. Then during the final fight it becomes clear that the trickster is the island master.

I know but that last part, I don't get. There must be some logic or explanation but it's beyond me.

The story of the game is lacking imho. Surely it's enough to set up a personal treasure island with enough explanation to make it believable and immersive. There are a few smaller plot holes though. I'd have written the story slightly different but on the other hand, with 4 developers it kinda is a zero sum game. Every second not spent on the story is another second in an awesome puzzle.

In regard of the story LoG follows the classic crawlers. The player is set into a situation and along the way he can uncover pieces of lore to put things together. There is never something like a narrator who explains all the twists and turns of evens which i believe is a good thing from a RPG PoV.

PnP RPG's work the same way: the player information base is limited to what he can uncover himself. Most of the time the whole picture eludes him since he has no access to certain backgroud lore or people. This gives imagination a lot of room to dwell, trying to figure out all the connections and this benefits the immersion into the game world.

Dr.Disaster wrote:In regard of the story LoG follows the classic crawlers. The player is set into a situation and along the way he can uncover pieces of lore to put things together. There is never something like a narrator who explains all the twists and turns of evens which i believe is a good thing from a RPG PoV.

PnP RPG's work the same way: the player information base is limited to what he can uncover himself. Most of the time the whole picture eludes him since he has no access to certain backgroud lore or people. This gives imagination a lot of room to dwell, trying to figure out all the connections and this benefits the immersion into the game world.

Absolutely agree with that. The story is well presented with minimal direct interaction or presentations. I found it refreshing to get a story this way rather than through long texts or monologues.

I was looking forward to resurrecting Kilhagan and it never happened.
I also did not get the rage/revenge Kilhagan story in the den, what was that a reference to?

Dematto wrote:

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Wait, so Kilhagan isn't The Trickster?