Completed it, feedback.

[amicus]

Overall I enjoyed it as I did the first game, but I do have some feedback and some criticisms, hopefully I can make them constructive.

The improvements over the first were obvious and really helped, it was so much nicer to be able to roam freely and also be outdoors sometimes, much less monotonous than being in the same dungeon the whole time. The loot seemed better too, memorable items are great, a few more interesting spells, (Meteors ftw), better enemies, hold click to do hard attacks with certain weapons, generally a bigger scope game and it felt more like a proper epic RPG adventure rather than a single (albeit huge) dungeon.

Some might disagree with some of these things but this is just my opinion. I really miss the "all attack" button from EotB3, it makes it much less click click clicky. I really hate hidden buttons, there is not really any challenge in finding them, they are easy to spot if you stop and look at the wall. The problem is that they exist which means you have to look for them, and yet you can't usually see them by just walking normally. So you HAVE to walk sideways hunting every wall for buttons. It is an OCD nightmare and it ruins the flow of the game. I can't just walk through a dungeon looking forwards and waiting for enemies and enjoying the graphics etc.. instead I end up walking everywhere in circles like a crab, constantly checking out every slight bump. I think it is ok to hide a few of these for special bonuses but they shouldn't be so common and they shouldn't hide important things either. But really I would rather they not exist at all, challenge the player with tough combat and puzzles, not tedium. Same goes for fake walls.

The puzzles impressed me far less this time than the first game. With the first game they were all either mind puzzles or dexterity puzzles and I managed to cope with them all without ever needing a walkthrough, although a few kept me guessing for a long time sometimes. But with this game I think some of the puzzles were too obscure, and something I hated was all the little notes about things that weren't even in the same area. I think there should be notes about special loots, but being stumped by some puzzle because you forgot about some note you read 5 hours earlier in some other dungeon, is just not good design imo. Overall I felt like the first game was puzzle perfection, but this time it was designed to just be obtuse.

Weight limits I find to be too strict, I find no real benefit from it gameplay wise. It makes sense to have some limits otherwise we can just keep everything, but having to constantly manage items is just tedium. I had bags at first but once my characters were wearing heavy armour, they couldn't even carry anything in bags anymore. I generally had 1 weapon in my hand but then another weapon in my inventory which I hoped to use later once I got a few more skill points, but even that 1 extra weapon meant that balancing potions and food and stuff was a constant chore. I do tend to hoard things like potions and the little bombs, I like to save them for the end of the game when I might really need them, but I don't like being punished for that for the whole game. I had to throw away a lot of items and food just to keep weight under control.

Lastly, combat is better this time but I still wish it was more advanced. I still think it sucks to not have a healer like I did in EotB games etc. Without the healer there is only really 4 dps. At least with heals it added a little extra strategic element to gameplay because the healer would only usually have a few heal spells so you had to use them wisely in a fight. With LoG2 there is no healing just a lot of potions, so I can use a potion on whoever I want, whenever I want. It makes it a bit simple.

The melee characters also still need a lot of work. 1 click to attack is not enough, now we can hold the click to power up an attack which was better, but still not enough. My rogue wasn't too bad because he at least had a big hit and a leach attack, but my tank had a shield so only had a big hit. I hope in the future that melee characters could maybe have a few abilities to use tactically in fights. Backstab is a nice idea but it is rare that you get to use it now because enemies move so much faster and usually come in big groups. I think melees should have debilitates, stuns, etc. as standard, maybe a manual block to use occasionally, taunts, detaunts, AoE attack etc.

Lastly, spell casters, I still don't feel satisfied. I spent third of the game just spamming fire blast, then the next third spamming fireball, and then the last third just spamming meteor and resting often. It was a bit better this time, I made good use of poison on my second wizard, and the poison shield saved me often too. But generally I wish there were far more spells. I think you should be able to freeze enemies like the frost bomb does, and I think it should last a while so you can crowd control big groups. I think there should be Wall of Force, traps you can set which explode etc., Enfeeblement, etc. I know this game is retro and indie, but still, the combat in Divinity Original Sin just blows this away so much. Even various roguelikes have more interesting magic too, take Dungeons of Dredmor with the little healing crystals you can put in a square on the floor and you have to run over them. Or a mini teleport, a life drain but which harms you longer term, cone shaped fire attacks, knock back etc. I think spell casters should have a big variety of spells like that. I also think the runes to cast should probably change too. It was better this time being able to draw shapes it is a pain to draw the shape every time. My suggestions are, if you really want to keep the runes, make it like Arx Fatalis so you do the runes several times and it queues up little icons and on the screen and then you can just click them to shoot the spells later. But preferably I would go to a spellbook style and just let us have a wider selection of spells and then shoot the spells from the book. It is less 'cool' than the runes but I think it would be more fun and more tactical.

Broken limbs I didn't like, it is too random and there is no way to avoid it. I get in a fight and suddenly my leg is injured and I can't move because my character is encumbered... I have to throw away a bunch of items. Usually when I got injured I would just reload, unless I could get to a crystal. But either way, it isn't fun and doesn't offer anything to gameplay, it didn't make it any more challenging, it just added to my already huge number of reloads.

Just my opinions! Overall I had fun. I hope there is a LoG3 and I hope it continues the progression!

[Hucast]

I agree with the all attack option. that would be nice with limiting the amount of clicking everywhere we have to do. As for healing, energy regenerates in such a way that healing would provide an easy full heal really anytime you wanted one. I feel that would take alot out of the game's mood. As with melee characters, I think they are in a good spot now. No idea what else I would give them.

[amicus]

I agree with the all attack option. that would be nice with limiting the amount of clicking everywhere we have to do. As for healing, energy regenerates in such a way that healing would provide an easy full heal really anytime you wanted one. I feel that would take alot out of the game's mood. As with melee characters, I think they are in a good spot now. No idea what else I would give them.

It would need rebalancing to have healing, in games like EotB your characters are easily beaten to death in most fights, so you usually have to cast a few heals in most fights, and because you only have a few heals between rests, you have to pick well. It just adds an extra bit of depth. As for melee characters there is a lot they could do but it would need rebalancing too. If enemies powered up big attacks or spells, then melees could stun them if you click fast enough to interrupt. Maybe a shield bash. There could be aggro builders that make all enemies target that one character, which can backfire once they take too many hits and get injured and then the hits keep coming. Maybe they can have a clickable evade or feign death where they drop out of combat but appear dead to the enemies. Standard attacks could build up power or points and then you can spend those points on various big attacks. So if you are fighting just one enemy then you hit him 4 times and it builds 4 power points, then convert those to one big stun or a big hit. Or if you are surrounded by enemies you attack 4 times and then convert those points in to a big area attack which hits everything around the party but for lower damage than the single target hit. Or you could use the points to enter a defensive stance. Also melee characters could attempt to cause injuries to enemies, so injure a leg to stop them chasing you, injure an arm to reduce their damage etc. or cause bleeding to cause damage over time.

Stuff like that.

Basically take ideas from other RPG's and add to the depth and provide more tactics and more intense action. I feel like they have caught up to the likes of Eye of the Beholder now, but I'd like to see them attempt to surpass it.

[Hucast]

I agree with the all attack option. that would be nice with limiting the amount of clicking everywhere we have to do. As for healing, energy regenerates in such a way that healing would provide an easy full heal really anytime you wanted one. I feel that would take alot out of the game's mood. As with melee characters, I think they are in a good spot now. No idea what else I would give them.

It would need rebalancing to have healing, in games like EotB your characters are easily beaten to death in most fights, so you usually have to cast a few heals in most fights, and because you only have a few heals between rests, you have to pick well. It just adds an extra bit of depth. As for melee characters there is a lot they could do but it would need rebalancing too. If enemies powered up big attacks or spells, then melees could stun them if you click fast enough to interrupt. Maybe a shield bash. There could be aggro builders that make all enemies target that one character, which can backfire once they take too many hits and get injured and then the hits keep coming. Maybe they can have a clickable evade or feign death where they drop out of combat but appear dead to the enemies. Standard attacks could build up power or points and then you can spend those points on various big attacks. So if you are fighting just one enemy then you hit him 4 times and it builds 4 power points, then convert those to one big stun or a big hit. Or if you are surrounded by enemies you attack 4 times and then convert those points in to a big area attack which hits everything around the party but for lower damage than the single target hit. Or you could use the points to enter a defensive stance. Also melee characters could attempt to cause injuries to enemies, so injure a leg to stop them chasing you, injure an arm to reduce their damage etc. or cause bleeding to cause damage over time.

Stuff like that.

Basically take ideas from other RPG's and add to the depth and provide more tactics and more intense action. I feel like they have caught up to the likes of Eye of the Beholder now, but I'd like to see them attempt to surpass it.

I think the idea of things like shield bash skills and the like would be fantastic. But the way the game plays would put limitations on many things. While in quite a few rpgs, with aggro and the like, you're either turn based or in an mmo with other players. When controlling the actions of four party members and using complicated functions like feign death and aggro could be a serious problem and could become just about impossible to do when combined with strafing and movement. I think additional combat options, like a shield bash, would be great additions, but they would have to be well thought out and mesh well with the style of game.

[Ichthyic]

mostly agree with all this, except:

I think you should be able to freeze enemies like the frost bomb does,

ice bolt does freeze enemies. you just have to have a high water skill level to see it happen frequently. Also, some creatures seem either immune or naturally resistant to being frozen.

definitely feel like melee combat should have more options. shieldplay is a great idea.