Why I will not be finishing Grimrock

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I read the reviews, I saw the videos, I knew I'd love it. I memorized every spell in Wizardry (Tiltowait, anyone?); played and completed every Ultima from I to VI and could read the runes without a cheat sheet; worked my way through Magic Candle and Bard's Tale I and II; in short, I figured Grimrock would be right up my alley. Imagine my disappointment when, instead of taking the best from all the old RPGs, Grimrock takes every frustrating, irritating, annoying element from all of them and combines them into a single infuriating package.

I know the fanboys are going to jump all over this. Every developer forum is the same: ZOMG, the game is perfect, sprung whole and immaculate from Zeus' forehead, and if you don't like it you must be spastic, stupid, or trolling. Going through the forum before posting this, for example, I saw a comment from one of the fanboys sneering that anyone who could die before level 6 on easy should go back to playing turn-based games, because they're clearly incompetent. As a side note, I'd like to say that this kind of clod-like behaviour is what is keeping video games in the nerd ghetto, just as the very same anti-social sperglords kept comic books in the ghetto for 75 years.

My eyesight is not especially good. I'm going slowly blind from a rare form of glaucoma. It's good enough that, as long as I sit close enough to the screen, I can play just about anything I want to. You know what's not fun? Squinting with my nose against the monitor, trying to find a single imperfect brick for hours on end which may or may not be there, for a puzzle which may or may not rely on a hidden button, fast-twitch reflexes, floor plates, teleporters, switches, false walls, keys, or more often some combination thereof which is totally unintuitive and comes with no clues at all, requiring a long, tedious, frustrating, inch-by-inch examination of every tiny crevice of a thousand identical cloned walls.

Nor was I pleased to see that combat required non-stop exploitative kiting. Do you really think you're a superior lifeform because you can time your cheesy sidestepping to avoid overpowered ranged attacks? I could train a chimp to do it, except chimps have too much intelligence to waste their time doing it.

In short, I am extremely disappointed with Grimrock, will be uninstalling it uncompleted, and will not be wasting any more of my money on any further installments. I give Grimrock 2/10, and that's with a bonus point because the schtick had promise.

[steyrhahn]

yes, its not a good game for someone going blind. And not with poor reflexes either in certain scenarios. The same could be said for the majority of computer/video games. But making sweeping general statements about everyone here based on the comments of one or two inconsiderate or self centered people doesn't speak well of your judgement either. I expect you're frustrated. Good luck in finding the type of game you want to play.

[Dr.Disaster]

Folks i consider this a troll post. Here is why:

I read the reviews, I saw the videos, I knew I'd love it.

Something every interested player should do so he knows what he's getting into. There are a lot of Let's Plays out there to get an impression so it's likely he checked at least one of them.

I memorized every spell in Wizardry (Tiltowait, anyone?); played and completed every Ultima from I to VI and could read the runes without a cheat sheet; worked my way through Magic Candle and Bard's Tale I and II; in short, I figured Grimrock would be right up my alley.

Ah memories! (Tiltowait is easy; try "Trebor sux!" )

Most games mentioned are classic turn-based pre-DungeonMaster dungeon crawlers. I played many of them myself back in the 80's. He seemed to expect a game similar to them which is amazing since he said he watched "the videos".

My eyesight is not especially good. I'm going slowly blind from a rare form of glaucoma.

This is a "don't bash me" excuse.

It's good enough that, as long as I sit close enough to the screen, I can play just about anything I want to. You know what's not fun? Squinting with my nose against the monitor, trying to find a single imperfect brick for hours on end which may or may not be there, for a puzzle which may or may not rely on a hidden button, fast-twitch reflexes, floor plates, teleporters, switches, false walls, keys, or more often some combination thereof which is totally unintuitive and comes with no clues at all, requiring a long, tedious, frustrating, inch-by-inch examination of every tiny crevice of a thousand identical cloned walls.

Well .. nice try but not good enough.

One might get blind by glaucoma and while it is sad enough to lose your eyesight it does not blind your mind. He said he watched videos so he did KNEW what he'd be playing. Everything he complains about is shown in pretty much every LoG video out there so his glaucoma is no excuse for not recognizing the difference between a turn-based and a real-time dungeon crawler.

[Komag]

A few legit criticisms there, but Grimrock is most similar to Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder, both of which include paying attention to the walls to notice a little out of place spot here or there as a secret button. All the puzzles have clues, some more direct than others. Anyway, this fellow will just have to look elsewhere. Not sure the purpose of the post if he feels certain that here on the official forums we would all just be non-objective fan boys. Why bother posting here?

[JohnWordsworth]

I'm only going to devote the time to post one response to your review / rant, but I do feel like posting a reply!

1. Sorry to hear that this game is not for you. Grimrock has a few weaknesses (as does every game to a varying degree) and it sounds as though those flaws aggravate you to the degree that it spoils the game. That's sad, as many of us find the game a lot of fun and it has many old school elements (such as the magic and secret buttons etc), but if it's not for you - then that's cool. Chalk it up as a bad match. Liking a game is a subjective thing, and sometimes, a game just doesn't click with a person.

2. With regards to "fanboys". First of all, it's a bit hypocritical to tar everyone here with the same brush when that is in fact the very same thing you are accusing the forum users here of doing. Secondly, it's quite naive to come to a developer forum 18 months after a game has launched and expect there to be a large number of people here who are not big fans of the game.

3. "As a side note, I'd like to say that this kind of clod-like behaviour is what is keeping video games in the nerd ghetto.". It's estimated that over 65% of American's play video games and that, globally we spend 3 billion hours a week playing video games. That's a big ass ghetto!

Anyway, sorry to hear that you don't get on with Grimrock. Hope you find a good and fun alternative to play in the massive Steam Sale that's going on over Christmas. If you would like to help see the re-emerging genre of dungeon crawlers improve for you over the coming years, then perhaps post some suggested solutions to the gripes you have in the LoG 2 forums or write a blog post or two about how you would improve the genre as a whole.

[Halluinoid]

I do compare LOG to Dungeon Master (1987)

Playing LOG to me (in the first days) was a joy as the gameplay was soooooo identical to that of Dungeon Master

to me that was (is) a plus

The added MOD CAPABILITY (and community) for me doubles the gameplay potential, not only because you have all the amazing MOD games to download, but because the MOD editor is such a fun thing to use, producing your "own" dungeon is a heck of a lot of fun and LOG gives you that free

Squinting with my nose against the monitor, trying to find a single imperfect brick for hours on end which may or may not be there, for a puzzle which may or may not rely on a hidden button, fast-twitch reflexes, floor plates, teleporters, switches, false walls, keys

wow there is some truth in that I guess

perhaps there is a lesson here for all us modders I don't know, it is so tempting to chuck in "secret buttons" thinking they will be found, I know I am probably the biggest culprit in modded dungeons

[Rednecksith]

While I think your post is far too harsh and your rating far too low, I agree with you on the combat. It's far too movement-based, and had they gone with a system more akin to Eye of the Beholder or Lands of Lore instead of Stonekeep, the game would easily be a 9/10. In fact despite owning it since release, I've been unable to finish the game myself due to how wonky the combat feels. My suggestion is to play on Easy; yes you still have to side strafe more than in most FPS games, but there's a lot more leeway given, and you can stand toe-to-toe with most foes for a bit.

As for puzzles, what did you expect? Almost every dungeon crawler out there utilizes hidden buttons and the like, it's a staple of the genre. A spell or skill to make them more noticeable would be nice though.

[Asteroth]

While I think your post is far too harsh and your rating far too low, I agree with you on the combat. It's far too movement-based, and had they gone with a system more akin to Eye of the Beholder or Lands of Lore instead of Stonekeep, the game would easily be a 9/10. In fact despite owning it since release, I've been unable to finish the game myself due to how wonky the combat feels. My suggestion is to play on Easy; yes you still have to side strafe more than in most FPS games, but there's a lot more leeway given, and you can stand toe-to-toe with most foes for a bit.

As for puzzles, what did you expect? Almost every dungeon crawler out there utilizes hidden buttons and the like, it's a staple of the genre. A spell or skill to make them more noticeable would be nice though.

Eye of the beholder (the series at least) so incorporated strafing that the dragon at the end of game two is physically impossible to beat without constant sidestepping (to my knowledge, I may be a little off but at least nearly impossible). Game 1 did not actually require it admittedly, but those horrible spiders that poison you before you are even close to having a cure should never be approached without it. Stonekeep tried to limit it by making it so no square does not border a wall. (Look at the maps yourself, it is odd but there is no map square in the game that is not bordered by a wall, almost all are straight tunnels) I know that does not remove sidestepping, but lowers the effectiveness compared in the open rooms of Grimrock.

[Dr.Disaster]

While I think your post is far too harsh and your rating far too low, I agree with you on the combat. It's far too movement-based, and had they gone with a system more akin to Eye of the Beholder or Lands of Lore instead of Stonekeep, the game would easily be a 9/10. In fact despite owning it since release, I've been unable to finish the game myself due to how wonky the combat feels. My suggestion is to play on Easy; yes you still have to side strafe more than in most FPS games, but there's a lot more leeway given, and you can stand toe-to-toe with most foes for a bit.

As for puzzles, what did you expect? Almost every dungeon crawler out there utilizes hidden buttons and the like, it's a staple of the genre. A spell or skill to make them more noticeable would be nice though.

Eye of the beholder (the series at least) so incorporated strafing that the dragon at the end of game two is physically impossible to beat without constant sidestepping (to my knowledge, I may be a little off but at least nearly impossible). Game 1 did not actually require it admittedly, but those horrible spiders that poison you before you are even close to having a cure should never be approached without it. Stonekeep tried to limit it by making it so no square does not border a wall. (Look at the maps yourself, it is odd but there is no map square in the game that is not bordered by a wall, almost all are straight tunnels) I know that does not remove sidestepping, but lowers the effectiveness compared in the open rooms of Grimrock.

You are not off Asteroth. EoB2 was/is impossible to beat without sidestepping. No matter how OP the party was the final boss simply grilled it in just a few attacks. Also EoB1 could get pretty rough at times when the party got outnumbered because it did not move swift enough or the enemies grew too strong to tank so you got forced to sidestep. Tanking monsters was only an option at the beginning, never later on.

[Rednecksith]

While I think your post is far too harsh and your rating far too low, I agree with you on the combat. It's far too movement-based, and had they gone with a system more akin to Eye of the Beholder or Lands of Lore instead of Stonekeep, the game would easily be a 9/10. In fact despite owning it since release, I've been unable to finish the game myself due to how wonky the combat feels. My suggestion is to play on Easy; yes you still have to side strafe more than in most FPS games, but there's a lot more leeway given, and you can stand toe-to-toe with most foes for a bit.

As for puzzles, what did you expect? Almost every dungeon crawler out there utilizes hidden buttons and the like, it's a staple of the genre. A spell or skill to make them more noticeable would be nice though.

Eye of the beholder (the series at least) so incorporated strafing that the dragon at the end of game two is physically impossible to beat without constant sidestepping (to my knowledge, I may be a little off but at least nearly impossible). Game 1 did not actually require it admittedly, but those horrible spiders that poison you before you are even close to having a cure should never be approached without it. Stonekeep tried to limit it by making it so no square does not border a wall. (Look at the maps yourself, it is odd but there is no map square in the game that is not bordered by a wall, almost all are straight tunnels) I know that does not remove sidestepping, but lowers the effectiveness compared in the open rooms of Grimrock.

You are not off Asteroth. EoB2 was/is impossible to beat without sidestepping. No matter how OP the party was the final boss simply grilled it in just a few attacks. Also EoB1 could get pretty rough at times when the party got outnumbered because it did not move swift enough or the enemies grew too strong to tank so you got forced to sidestep. Tanking monsters was only an option at the beginning, never later on.

I never beat EoB 1 or 2 (it's on my to do list once it comes to GOG), so after watching the last fight of 2 on Youtube, I will cede your point. However, as I've made it about halfway through the second and 3/4 through the first, I can say with confidence that I never had to sidestep like I do in Grimrock. I never played that way in Lands of Lore either. Plus the Wizardry games had turn-based combat, which is what I would have liked Grimrock to be.

Ah well. Not here to argue, just to give my opinion on the situation & lend the OP a slightly sympathetic ear.

This post DID inspire me to go back and attempt to finally finish the game though. Just hit level 3, playing on easy because I'm a wimp.