Grimrock

This is a great game. I've just finished my first play-through, and before I play again I thought I might as well post some short feedback comments. (I played on Normal with "old school". According to Steam, I've played for 22 hours.) There are a lot of good things to say about the game, but I'd prefer to just rant a bit about a couple of minor things I thought could have been better.

Regarding potions - I like the potion system in general, but I think the fun / usefulness of potions is a bit hindered by a couple of things. Firstly, I found the 2 status-curing potions (anti-venom and antidote) to be relatively useless. Those conditions don't last long enough to be a serious problem, and so the potions just aren't really needed. It's far easier to just wait out the effects of the condition and to use a healing potion. The other issue I had with potions is that the ingredients for some of them seems to be a bit poorly distributed. ie. I had heaps of ingredients which I didn't really need, and hardly any of a particular key ingredient. Maybe there are some recipes that I never worked out; I'm not really sure. But based on what I did know, I felt that the fun of the potion system was a little bit stifled. I think it would be better if poison and disease lasted a lot longer (particularly disease), and perhaps it would be good if there was slightly less of the healing herb, and slightly more of the key ingredient that I mentioned. (or perhaps just some interesting recipes which don't need that key ingredient.)

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There were just two instances in the game where I got stuck for awhile and found it a bit frustrating. It's not really a big deal, but I figure I might as well mention what they were just in case there's something that could be changed in the game to make it less likely to happen to other players.

The first case I think was due to a minor bug / minor design flaw. I couldn't work out where to go next, and I explored the whole level extremely thoroughly - looking at every wall, and double checking every switch and so on - only to finally discover that I only reason I was stuck is that a scripted in-game event had failed to trigger: The second case was right near the very end of the game, and it was mostly just due to me being a bit careless or something - but one could argue that it wouldn't have happened if the graphics were slightly different... Anyway, it kind of sucks that minor things like that can result in hours of lost time; but I guess that's just part of the nature of games like this. In any case, I thoroughly enjoyed the game - and I'm thinking of playing again right away. I'm just trying to decide whether I should play the same dungeon again (but this time on Hard, and without "old school"), or if I should try a custom dungeon - or if I should perhaps have a shot a making my own dungeon.

When I play again, I'm going to pick different spells skills. In the game I just played, I used earth and fire (which seem to be the obvious options based on the order the spells are revealed, and the skills of the default mage). So next time, I guess I'll use ice and air - but I'm a little bit concerned that it will be a bit samey. By the looks of things all the spell groups consist of a short range attack, a long range attack, an enchant spell, and a shield spell. Only the air group has a fifth spell. I think it might be a bit better if there was more difference between the spells than just their damage type. On the other hand, I suppose there are some differences: the poison spells create a persisting cloud of poison rather than just being instantaneous damage; and the ice spells (presumably) can immobilize enemies - so that's not bad. But I'd like to see a bit more variety still - for example, there could be a spell that slows enemies, or an attack that bounces off walls, or an attack which splashes onto neighbouring squares, or one which spins the enemy around, and so on. ... None of this is really important for the first play through the game though, because the player isn't going to get enough skill points to experiment with all the spells anyway. So really the extra variety I'm talking about would just be for a bit of extra replay value.

karadoc wrote:The first case I think was due to a minor bug / minor design flaw. I couldn't work out where to go next, and I explored the whole level extremely thoroughly - looking at every wall, and double checking every switch and so on - only to finally discover that I only reason I was stuck is that a scripted in-game event had failed to trigger:

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It was at the key in the "outer sanctum". Apparently what's meant to happen is that picking up the key causes a bunch of walls get lowered, opening the path to the next puzzle. (The next puzzle is the riddle/scavenger-hunt with the four items.) But in my cause, the walls did not get lowered at that time. After hours of searching the rest of the level, I finally picked up an arrow which happened to be on shelf that once held the key - and picking up that arrow triggered the pathway to open. I don't remember if the arrow was there originally or if I'd just dumped it there because I didn't need it - but I was a bit frustrated at having wasted so much time just because I hadn't picked up an arrow sooner. I'm not really sure if this problem was bad game-design, or just bad luck for me.

Actually this event is pretty failsave.

karadoc wrote:None of this is really important for the first play through the game though, because the player isn't going to get enough skill points to experiment with all the spells anyway. So really the extra variety I'm talking about would just be for a bit of extra replay value.

Aye, on first play it would be overkill. Yet some modders already went into the direction you mentioned and added such things in their mods.

I got stuck by the level 9 alcoves as well, because I put back the useless spell scroll the first time. I think each alcove should just be deactivated at least one time, but not required to remain empty after that, or at least have all three items be definitely desirable by everyone (replace the scroll with something like a potion)

> and the ice spells (presumably) can immobilize enemies

The basic "blast" ice spell has another difference that you'll soon discover when using it.

Neutronium Dragon wrote:> and the ice spells (presumably) can immobilize enemies

The basic "blast" ice spell has another difference that you'll soon discover when using it.

You're right. It is slightly different.

So there are some unique traits for the different spell elements. I guess that's fine how it is then. I guess I'm just kind of craving more content. I had a lot of fun while playing through the game, and I don't really want it to be over yet. (I don't think the game is too short. I just want more because I liked it!)

I have started a second game on hard.. but it isn't holding my attention as well. All the puzzles and now super-easy (because I remember how to solve them), and so the bulk of the game is reduced to combat + staring at walls looking for hidden switches. I guess I'll just tinker with the dungeon editor, and have a look at what other people have created already.

By the way, does anyone have an opinion on what I said about potions and disease / poison? I really think disease should last a lot longer so that it is worth trying to cure.

I agree about cure poison and disease potions going unused - the ailments should be much worse than they are.

I'm working on a "Master Quest" altered version of the original game dungeon, so whenever it gets released you might give it a try for a "fresh" experience that is still true to the original (changed layouts, new puzzles, original assets, etc)

karadoc wrote:So there are some unique traits for the different spell elements. I guess that's fine how it is then. I guess I'm just kind of craving more content. I had a lot of fun while playing through the game, and I don't really want it to be over yet. (I don't think the game is too short. I just want more because I liked it!)

I have started a second game on hard.. but it isn't holding my attention as well. All the puzzles and now super-easy (because I remember how to solve them), and so the bulk of the game is reduced to combat + staring at walls looking for hidden switches.

Playing thru an already explored dungeon when it's puzzles are of less concern a good choice would be (beside different difficulty and no auto-map) with an entirely different party setup. I.e. the default party is 2 fighters, 1 ranged rogue and 1 fire mage. If you used it a setup for 2nd game could be a fighter with an yet unused weapon skill, 2 melee rogues (Assassination + Daggers/Unarmed) for front and back row and a mage with yet unused element skill(s). Or maybe you'd prefer an all-rogue or all-mage party? And if that's still not enough, there are alot of other dungeons yet to explore.

I loved everything about this game, It reminded me of stonekeep which I played so much back in 96 i think, however the only thing it lacked was perhaps more enemies and a better thought out end boss, which was a huge disappointment. Come on!!! whats evil about a! It's like almost human were in a rush to finish this game and thought " that'll do ". Imagine you're a player and you've fought your way for hours and days on end through the levels only to be faced with a faceless, personalityless final enemy. Does anyone agree with this ?? What kind of final boss did you envision before you got to the end??

rob49815 wrote:I loved everything about this game, It reminded me of stonekeep which I played so much back in 96 i think, however the only thing it lacked was perhaps more enemies and a better thought out end boss, which was a huge disappointment. Come on!!! whats evil about a

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mechanised rubiks cube!

! It's like almost human were in a rush to finish this game and thought " that'll do ". Imagine you're a player and you've fought your way for hours and days on end through the levels only to be faced with a faceless, personalityless final enemy. Does anyone agree with this ?? What kind of final boss did you envision before you got to the end??

I disagree. The end boss concept seemed pretty cool to me. I wasn't expecting a clockwork cube which even talks to you telepathycally.

I personally would have preferred something more traditional I think, but I did like the uniqueness of the cube nemesis, very well done it was.