Grimrock

Okay...so I've been looking around the forums trying to understand how the party thing works.. but everybody talks in "last level" details. Now while I can understand how this is beneficial for advanced players, it makes no sense to me, as the majority of the game in my opinion is between the first and last level.

For instance... I made my first party.... Fighter, Fighter, Rogue, Mage. Why not right? All human, cause in other RPGs they are your general "Jack of all trades, good beginner" sort. The rogue i made an archer... the Mage became an air mage (cause hey, I like lightning and air magic.) One Fighter specced sword.... The other, and axe....

Start game and play several hours.... I get 1 hammer, and a few rocks..... No sword, so fighter 1 is useless. First scroll I get is fire, so Mage is useless. No bow, so archer is useless. And the hammer went on Axe guy.

Scratch that party.... I thought we could make parties anyway we wanted....but now i feel like I'm left with 2 choices....either make a party that doesn't need equipment (monks!).... or make a stand-by party (A party that just holds all it's skill points and allocates as it finds the equipment it needs...boring). I compromised. Made one evasion based monk, a hammer wielder, a thrower, and a stand-by mage....

Got down to level 3, and started fighting multiple groups of spear wielding skeletons (like 5 on 1 block...the hell?)....got my butt handed to me... And frankly i wasn't having much fun, the monk no longer could dodge as effectively and quickly fell... The fighter couldnt hit anything, the mage takes FOREVER to cast anything (would be nice if the game paused during a spell casting), and the rogue...ran out of rocks..

One of the main reasons I had no fun, was the party didnt FEEL like I made it. Like my leveling was completely beholden to the level design, versus tackling the level based on my parties design.

TO THE QUESTIONS:
First question: So, does anyone have any party making tips that aid in actually playing the game efficiently from Level 1, versus just being "Ultimate max-level munchkin stats" party?
Second question: if it worth it to jump down pits? I dropped a bunch of snails down a trap, but kinda wanted the xp..and one time i purposefully jumped down and found an items.... or is that a rarity, and not worth the damage taken?

Third question: Are there any hotkeys to attack/cast spells? I read about circling, and it seems odd to try and click multiple buttons while "strafing" (I use "" cause the lack of a circle is wierd to me...multiple turning and all that, rather than just side stepping while keeping you focus on an enemy.) What about circling when there are multiple enemies?

I've played with your exact party. I suspect you've missed some items. sword can also be a cutlass or machete until you get a proper sword. there's an axe on L2. a machete on L2. Your ranged rogue should have a couple throwing knives and a shuriken.

Back row can use skeleton shields and spears until they level up. Mage should be able to cast shock with skill 4 in air magic. You could save the game and experiment with spells until you find it (or)

Here's a walk thru on another web site.
you'll find a bow and some arrows soon. Every skeleton archer will drop a frost arrow if you save/replay him a few times.

Some of the skeleton gang attacks can be difficult. You need to either retreat to a defensible position or manipulate a door to take them on 1 at a time.

steyrhahn wrote:I've played with your exact party. I suspect you've missed some items. sword can also be a cutlass or machete until you get a proper sword. there's an axe on L2. a machete on L2. Your ranged rogue should have a couple throwing knives and a shuriken.

Back row can use skeleton shields and spears until they level up. Mage should be able to cast shock with skill 4 in air magic. You could save the game and experiment with spells until you find it (or)

Here's a walk thru on another web site.

SpoilerShow

http://www.gamebanshee.com/legendofgrim ... level1.php

you'll find a bow and some arrows soon. Every skeleton archer will drop a frost arrow if you save/replay him a few times.

wait...so for mage, i can just cast the spell by randomly clicking runes until I i find it? I don't need the scroll?

yep. also see my edit to my previous post

Werewood wrote:

steyrhahn wrote: wait...so for mage, i can just cast the spell by randomly clicking runes until I i find it? I don't need the scroll?

you can also cheat by going to a website and getting all the runes. err... not that i did anything like that... not me. no siree. ahem.

Werewood wrote:For instance... I made my first party.... Fighter, Fighter, Rogue, Mage. Why not right? All human, cause in other RPGs they are your general "Jack of all trades, good beginner" sort. The rogue i made an archer... the Mage became an air mage (cause hey, I like lightning and air magic.) One Fighter specced sword.... The other, and axe....

Start game and play several hours.... I get 1 hammer, and a few rocks..... No sword, so fighter 1 is useless. First scroll I get is fire, so Mage is useless. No bow, so archer is useless. And the hammer went on Axe guy.

Well that party is/was pretty well laided out on skill diversity.

Now what you need to consider is that starting up is always slow, so you won't find skill specific stuff for anyone right on the 1st dungeon level. There's nothing wrong with making do with what you can get your hands on early on; you'll find better and matching stuff soon. The Grimrock dungeon is very well balanced here.

AFAIR there are both a beginner axe and sword on level 2. You can also find a sling there if you look very VERY carefully; in most walk-thru's and let's plays i've watched people keep missing it because of the ground it's on! On air spells: the first is located on level 3 BUT you can experiment a bit as was already stated since it's not required to find the spell scrolls to use magic. All you need to know to weave magic is the correct rune combo and the simplest of spells require just 1 rune

Werewood wrote:.. and the rogue...ran out of rocks..

So pick them back up! All you need to do is walk over them.

Werewood wrote:First question: So, does anyone have any party making tips that aid in actually playing the game efficiently from Level 1, versus just being "Ultimate max-level munchkin stats" party?

Pretty much any party is effective as long as it features skill diversity (what you did with your 1st party) without spreading skill points across more then 2-3 talents. If you want to be weapon-independent go for the unarmed skill.

Werewood wrote:Second question: if it worth it to jump down pits? I dropped a bunch of snails down a trap, but kinda wanted the xp..and one time i purposefully jumped down and found an items.... or is that a rarity, and not worth the damage taken?

You won't find something in every pit but yes, jumping down pits is worth it.

Werewood wrote:Third question: Are there any hotkeys to attack/cast spells? I read about circling, and it seems odd to try and click multiple buttons while "strafing" (I use "" cause the lack of a circle is wierd to me...multiple turning and all that, rather than just side stepping while keeping you focus on an enemy.) What about circling when there are multiple enemies?

- No hotkeys to attack/cast spells, sorry.
- Try to move with the WASD keys so you can use the mouse to operate items and characters.
- Circling multiple enemies requires more room then a 2x2 grid, so if you don't have that room retreat if possible. In any way keep your attacks focused on the same enemy (go weakest first) to reduce their numbers as quick as possible.

You'll get plenty of weapons no matter what specialisation you pick fairly quickly as long as you look around. You can make do with any weapon early on as the game's combat doesn't present any challenge until later. The first bits can be thought of as tutorial areas.

I prefer they'd gone a different route with scrolls.

Thanks for the tips: Diversity. Got it.
Knew about the rocks, just meant i ran out during a fight and thrower then BECAME useless.


So... I am trying to maintain Diversity, while still being a bit...odd.

Here's My Party so far: (Name - Race Class. STR DEX VIT WIL)
1) Shepard - Unknown.?
2) Mordin - Lizardman Archer. 16 12 14 09 Aggressive, Evasive?
3) Grunt - Minotaur Thrower. 21 06 18 07 Aggressive, HeadHunter
4) Tali - Insectoid ?

? denotes things I'm very flexible on.. though I'm a little flexible on anything...

Mordin and Grunt on the back row. Tali was gonna be a lightning mage, but front row.... an agile fighter with an armor boost maybe? Insectoid Fighter would be an oddity in my mind.

Shepard... can be anything race wise...her face is human, but she can mingle with the best of the races... Also would be front row...but I'd hate to make her just standard fighter... Any ideas? or any "Oh god, if you do that you will immediately die before you reach halfway through..."


Yes, I'm using a custom portrait pack.

Werewood wrote:Thanks for the tips: Diversity. Got it.
Knew about the rocks, just meant i ran out during a fight and thrower then BECAME useless.


So... I am trying to maintain Diversity, while still being a bit...odd.

Here's My Party so far: (Name - Race Class. STR DEX VIT WIL)
1) Shepard - Unknown.?
2) Mordin - Lizardman Archer. 16 12 14 09 Aggressive, Evasive?
3) Grunt - Minotaur Thrower. 21 06 18 07 Aggressive, HeadHunter
4) Tali - Insectoid ?

? denotes things I'm very flexible on.. though I'm a little flexible on anything...

Mordin and Grunt on the back row. Tali was gonna be a lightning mage, but front row.... an agile fighter with an armor boost maybe? Insectoid Fighter would be an oddity in my mind.

Shepard... can be anything race wise...her face is human, but she can mingle with the best of the races... Also would be front row...but I'd hate to make her just standard fighter... Any ideas? or any "Oh god, if you do that you will immediately die before you reach halfway through..."

Yes, I'm using a custom portrait pack.

A front row mage best focuses on Evasion including evasion-specific gear. A lightning mage qualifies most to this because he get's Dexterity boosted (which helps Evasion) along with his growing lightning abilities. Staff Defense may seem fit too but diverting too many skill points into it (past enabling Light Armor Proficiency) can be bad because lightning mages have a very high Energy need. Due to this their Spellcraft needs to be build to get Wisdom and thus Energy up.

A front row fighter should focus on being able to wear all kinds of armor without penalty so putting 16 skill points into the Armor skill for Heavy Armor Proficiency is pretty much mandatory. After that it comes down to weapons. Each weapon class has advantages and disadvantages so don't sweat too much about if you want to go sword axe mace or unarmed. Now once you specialized to a weapon class stay with it!

EDIT
Now if you don't want to make a fighter at all think about a melee rogue, using Assassination together with Daggers or even going unarmed.

Dr.Disaster wrote: A front row mage best focuses on Evasion including evasion-specific gear. A lightning mage qualifies most to this because he get's Dexterity boosted (which helps Evasion) along with his growing lightning abilities. Staff Defense may seem fit too but diverting too many skill points into it (past enabling Light Armor Proficiency) can be bad because lightning mages have a very high Energy need. Due to this their Spellcraft needs to be build to get Wisdom and thus Energy up.

A front row fighter should focus on being able to wear all kinds of armor without penalty so putting 16 skill points into the Armor skill for Heavy Armor Proficiency is pretty much mandatory. After that it comes down to weapons. Each weapon class has advantages and disadvantages so don't sweat too much about if you want to go sword axe mace or unarmed. Now once you specialized to a weapon class stay with it!

EDIT
Now if you don't want to make a fighter at all think about a melee rogue, using Assassination together with Daggers or even going unarmed.

The best front row mage would be a lightning mage? How convenient. (and since i can ignore scrolls altogether apparently, even better)

I guess Shepard will have to be a standard fighter...I already know i'm gonna be a loot hoarder, and having armor I can't use would drive me nuts.