Party Setup?

[Thels]

About to start on the game, and the perfectionist that I am, I like to compose at least a decent party. I'm a little surprised that there aren't any recent threads about the topic, considering all the character generation options you have. So can people advise if what I do here is good?

1) Classes. I would like to take one of each, so that's Fighter/Mage/Rogue/???. It makes sense to go with a 2nd Fighter on the front line.

2) Races. From what I gather reading through the various posts, Skill Points beat Attribute Points, so 4x Human seems the smartest option, or am I missing something here?

3) Attribute Points. Do these work retro-actively? If I boost Vitality to max at level 1, do I receive more HP overall than when I would max it out at a later level? (Do we even get to max it out later on?)

Fighters: I'm a bit at a loss here. I see Attack Power rise very slowly with Strength, while both Accuracy and Evasion skyrocket with Dexterity. Since they're the one up front and probably taking the most damage, despite side-stepping, I'm actually thinking about going 6 Dexterity, 4 Vitality for both of them.

Mage: Obviously, Willpower is very important for her, so I put 6 points in it, leaving 4 points in Vitality, considering her very poor base health.

Rogue: With no boost to Vitality her base health is as high as the Mage's fully boosted ones, so I left Vitality alone. Willpower seems like a Mage stat, so I left that alone as well. That makes me end up with 6 Dexterity, 4 Strength.

4) Skills & Traits.

I decided to give each of them the Skilled Trait. The three extra points seem quite worth it.

Fighter1: I'm not sure how limited the loot is, but from what I managed to gather it's not EoB1 goody bags. There's several pointers to unarmed, so I'm going to try having one of my Fighters be a brawler. I put all 7 points in Unarmed Combat, and gave her the Fist Fighter trait (unarmed +6 AP).

Fighter2: I put all 7 skill points into Swords for her, but noticed that her health is quite a little lower than Fighter1. Do unarmed fighters gain in survivability? Since she's on the front line as well, I gave her Healthy (+2 Vitality). Tough (+15 Health) gave her more Health, but I'm assuming that Healthy will catch up soon enough.

Mage: For now I put all 7 skill points into Ice, which gives me two spells it seems. I don't think I'm going to dabble into the other schools, though I should probably pick up Spellcraft. I went with Strong Mind as her Trait, again not as much Energy as Aura, but I'm assuming it'll catch up.

Rogue: I love bows, so I put all her skill points into Missile Weapons. I went with Aggressive (+4 AP), since that value seems difficult to boost.



Any comments on that initial set up? Any things I did obviously wrong?

Also, any advise on how to skill them up from there? Do my Fighters need to dabble into Armor and Acrobatics to survive? Does my Rogue need anything besides Missile Weapons if I want her as a pure archer? How much Spellcraft is welcome on my Mage?

All help is much appreciated. PS: I'm going to play this on Hard.

[Disasterrific]

The 4th member can be any class for a viable party. Front row evasion rogue is excellent. 2nd mage is fun and adds some elemental variety, fighters are very effective with good weapons and armour.

I would recommend having at least one minotaur for the head hunter trait. Skilled is good for this dungeon because it boosts your total skill points by nearly a whole level but I would advise willpower and vitality bonuses for long term development. Make sure to equip items that give bonuses in these attributes to characters that are about to level up.

Insectoid mages definitely have an advantage in mana and lizardmen in evasion so the race choice isn't so clear cut. Your party will have trouble with carrying stuff if you manage your inventory poorly due to the lack of strength.

Unarmed is fun and moderately effective but for reasons I shall not go into, I'd recommend two weapons for your first play-through.

Far more importantly however, just play through and enjoy the game without worrying about maxing everything. Every choice is a compromise, and the game isn't impossible with even the worst party, so sit back and have some fun!

[Thels]

Thanks for your advice, Disasterrific!

You sound less enthusiastic about Unarmed? What would you recommend for the 2nd Fighter? Axes, Maces or another Swords?

Also, when I hold a Torch in my hand and then attack with it, does that count as unarmed?

[Disasterrific]

A lot of people say twin swords is good and double attack speed at 50 is nothing to laugh about, but just imagine all the awesome axes and maces you'll be throwing away.

I've yet to max out unarmed on my mapless hard run through so maybe that redeems it a bit but the skill tree itself is kind of dull (aside from the easily overlooked and awesome +5 +5 bonus). Again it's an equipment issue as well - there's more for the other skills. I don't think torches count as unarmed,

[Sweet_Intestinals]

You made a mistake with your rogue. Dexterity is borderline useless for an archer. It's counter-intuitive, but as there's no hit roll for ranged weapons it will do nothing for him except increase his dodge. Stick to strength for increased damage. Another thing to consider is you might not see a missile weapon for a little while. Give him thrown weapons to use in the meantime while sticking to your planned skills at level up and don't forget to make him throw something at every enemy or he'll fall behind in experience.

I'd also recommend considering a dagger rogue on the frontline for your fourth member. They hit more frequently (albeit less powerfully), have a slower cooldown, and tend to have pretty good dodge which more than compensates for low protection. The only problem is low hit points, but it's less of a problem than it seems.

[Thels]

No Dex for Archers? :S Ok...

So 6 points in Strength, and does Willpower do anything for her, or should I dump the other four points into Vitality?

And yeah, I noticed that, so I've been throwing one rock at each mob with my Rogue and Mage.

Thanks for the help, Sweet_Intestinals!

Another small question: There's no problem with giving my unarmed Fighter a shield, is there?

Also, does it matter what hand they use to attack? I put the primary weapons for the characters to the left in the right hand (my perspective) so the buttons to right click are closer together.

[Sweet_Intestinals]

You might want to put a couple of points into dex to help with dodge in case you're attacked from behind, but I do feel that vitality is more useful as it helps resist the damage-entire-party spells, which I consider more common than rear assaults. Non-mages drain energy when they randomly perform the special attacks in the higher tiers of their weapon groups, but I don't know how they're affected when the energy depletes. I suppose the special attacks won't happen anymore, and I seem to recall there being some sort of exhausted icon which might reduce their effectiveness until some energy restores. It hasn't happened to me very often and never for long enough for me to have a chance to investigate. I don't think it's worth extra willpower for, but I might be wrong and there might be something more to it.

Unarmed fighters can use a shield, you just need a free hand to make attacks from.

It doesn't matter which hand is used to attack.

[Thels]

Again thanks a bunch for the help!

I think I'll stick to Sword Fighter + Unarmed Fighter for now, but other than that I'll be following your advice.

[Thels]

Apparently, another thread did exist: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1822

Either way, I've noticed the skill trees of the Rogue, and starting with 7 skill points seems entirely moot, as the Missile tree delivers bonuses in nice steps of 4, meaning I always have 3 surplus skill points. Therefor I should get rid of 3 skill points in favor of something more useful.

I could drop Skilled, but there's not too much to pick back for it. Survivability?

On the other hand, I could switch from Human to Minotaur. The +5 Strength is very useful, the +4 Vitality gives me more survivability than any Trait could, and the -4 Dexterity and -3 Willpower are quite easy to handle. I think I'll go for that instead.

Spoken about Traits, I thought since 8 slots are displayed that you get more over time. I'm starting to doubt that, reading through the other thread.

Two things I experienced:

1) If one of your characters doesn't actively participate in slaying a creature, it receives less XP, but the others do NOT receive more XP. Thus, if you don't make sure that each member of your party gets at least a single hit in, you are wasting XP.

2) Health gained at level up is not the same every time. While it's based on Class and Vitality, there's a random factor tossed in there somewhere. I can't help myself but do the save and load trick that I did back in EOB1/2 to maximize HP. Does anyone know the formula at which Health is gained.

[Thels]

I did some testing:

Starting Health:
Classes affect starting health (60 for Fighters, 45 for Rogues, 35 for Mages).
Every point of vitality below 10 lowers this by 2.5 points (round down).
Every point of vitality above 10 raises this by 2.5 points (round down).
Tough increases this by 15.

Starting Energy:
Classes do not affect starthing energy (50 for all classes).
Every point of willpower below 10 lowers this by 2.5 points (round down).
Every point of willpower above 10 raises this by 2.5 points (round down).
Aura increases this by 15.

Health per level:
Classes do not affect health per level.
Health gained per level is 1-3.
Every 2 points of vitality below 10/11 lowers this by 1, to a minimum of 1.
Every 2 points of vitality above 10/11 raises this by 1.

Energy per level:
Classes do not affect energy per level.
Energy gained per level is 1-3.
Every 2 points of willpower below 10/11 lowers this by 1, to a minimum of 1.
Every 2 points of willpower above 10/11 raises this by 1.

Tough/Aura VS Healthy/Strong Mind.
Tough and Aura give a flat +15 bonus to health/energy, while Healthy/Strong Mind give an incrementing bonus to health/energy. This is 5 at level 1 and then 1 per level, so:
- Tough and Aura provide a higher health/energy bonus at levels 1-10, though they do not provide the other bonuses that vitality and willpower do offer.
- They are equal in health/energy bonus at level 11, making healthy/strong mind the better option due to the other bonuses that vitality and willpower do offer.
- At level 12 and higher, Healthy/Strong Mind not only provide a higher bonus to health/energy, but also the other bonuses that vitality and willpower do offer.

Gaining +2 vitality/energy at level 1 or level 2.
Normally, gaining a +2 bonus to vitality/willpower a level earlier or later differs 1 health/energy. However, since getting a +2 bonus to vitality/willpower at level 1 gives you both a +5 to health/energy and the +1 bonus at level 2 (before you can pick the stats), waiting to raise vitality/willpower between level 1 and 2 actually costs 6 health/energy.



TLDR: Vitality and Willpower are best at even scores. They do not provide their bonus retroactively, so each level you wait with boosting the stat costs 1 health/energy. Waiting between level 1 and 2 costs 6 health/energy.

PS. There's a rumor that 20+ Vitality does not provide additional health when leveling. I did not verify this yet.