Grimrock

ok, i'm one of those people that found my mage near useless because it simply required too much clicking to be worthwhile. i love the concept of the runes, but 'remembering' last spell cast would be so, so, SO helpful to my wrists.

however, I have another example where I think the interface needs to be fine tuned... i think enchanting is so click intensive that it's simply not worth it.

here's what i had to do, after nearly EVERY combat, until i simply gave up enchanting arrows because it was so darn annoying:

NOTE: (it ALSO breaks auto-pickup, which is annoying beyond belief unto itself)
1 click to switch mage (dual orbs) to hands view
1 click to go to rogue inventory
1 click to select used arrows
1 click to put used arrows in mage's hand
1 click to put the orb he was carrying in that hand into inventory
1 click to switch to casting mode with other orb
4 clicks to select runes for the enchant if no runes set, 3-ish if fireball was set
1 click to cast enchant
1 click to grab arrows
1 click to give arrows to rogue
1 click to pick up orb
1 click to put the orb back into mage's other hand
1 click to re-enter casting mode
3 clicks to setup up the fireball spell i had already set up to begin with, but had to delete

and it's worth mentioning, again, that in addition to all this clicking, it breaks autopickup, which is perhaps even worse than all of the above.

Quite frankly, that's an ABSURD amount of clicking and nonsense just to enchant arrows. it just isn't worth the effort.

SUGGESTIONS:

OPTION 1:
Once an arrow or quarrel is enchanted, let it stay enchanted unless you override the enchantment with a different one. NOTE: this will ALSO fix autopickup instantly, since now they wouldn't change state and your rogue would be smart enough to pick them up.

OPTION 2:
Remove the inventory shuffle by allowing the player to select a piece of inventory AFTER casting the spell. So, for example, you'd cast the spell, then click the arrows in your inventory or in your rogue's hand. If this is implemented, auto-pickup would still be broken, so really a rogue should know to pick up anything they used, even if it changes state.

I prefer Option 1, since it also fixes auto-pickup, and i don't think the energy cost of casting enchant is meaningful enough to worry about not having to cast it all the time.

I didn't bother with enchanting arrows tbh.. nor with "spell shields"

1 click to access runes
2 clicks to select ice bolt
1 click to fire

Over and over and over...

There's my mage for you. And he was useful.

t0tem wrote:1 click to access runes
2 clicks to select ice bolt
1 click to fire

Over and over and over...

There's my mage for you. And he was useful.

i specialized in fire. the fire ball requires three runes, which is absolutely annoying when all your other slots have one click attacks.

and this has nothing to do with enchanting, which is what my OP is about.

Bit confused here, you enchanted the arrows _during_ battle?
I have 8 bolts so far and thanks to the arrow skellies more arrows than I care to mention, they using last the entire battle..
The idea is to enchant the arrows between battles, and focus on fireball (or ice I guess if you like the stun)
As far as enchanting goes it does give my rogue a nice boost..

choasrepeated wrote:Bit confused here, you enchanted the arrows _during_ battle?
I have 8 bolts so far and thanks to the arrow skellies more arrows than I care to mention, they using last the entire battle..
The idea is to enchant the arrows between battles, and focus on fireball (or ice I guess if you like the stun)
As far as enchanting goes it does give my rogue a nice boost..

I too enchant arrows mostly outside of battle. But that actually strengthens OP's argument: rune use in battle has a gameplay effect, given the urgency of combat.

The tedium of enchanting (when outside battle) has no gameplay benefit. It's just a bunch of extra clicking for the player. Fewer clicks, admittedly, than the sequence the OP describes, but still a significant amount of make-work that usually has me not bothering to enchant (particularly in view of the auto pick-up issue that the OP mentions, too).

affa wrote:ok, i'm one of those people that found my mage near useless because it simply required too much clicking to be worthwhile. i love the concept of the runes, but 'remembering' last spell cast would be so, so, SO helpful to my wrists.

I think the problem is that the runes page closes when you cast, making another click to open it. It should have simply reset the runes chosen or left it how you had it before the cast off.

Dungeon Master had the best casting system. You could click runes, but it allow for combinations and numerical keys, so one could quickly type the spell making it feel like you were casting it with your hand.

affa wrote:however, I have another example where I think the interface needs to be fine tuned... i think enchanting is so click intensive that it's simply not worth it.

Yeah some feature rarely got used in my game of LoG. Like the Rogue class didn't do much back stabbing as it wasn't strategic to move tot he back of mobs, unless they were slow like the Trolls.

e8hffff wrote:Like the Rogue class didn't do much back stabbing as it wasn't strategic to move tot he back of mobs, unless they were slow like the Trolls.

I've been getting a fair amount of mileage out of my backstabbing since enemies are easy to freeze with my Ice Mage. Freeze them, saunter around behind them, and dish out the damage.

stepsongrapes wrote: I too enchant arrows mostly outside of battle. But that actually strengthens OP's argument: rune use in battle has a gameplay effect, given the urgency of combat.

The tedium of enchanting (when outside battle) has no gameplay benefit. It's just a bunch of extra clicking for the player. Fewer clicks, admittedly, than the sequence the OP describes, but still a significant amount of make-work that usually has me not bothering to enchant (particularly in view of the auto pick-up issue that the OP mentions, too).

No, I enchant OUTSIDE of battle.

The clicks listed are exactly the number of clicks required to enchant outside of battle, since it requires shuffling inventory, then runes, then inventory again (in addition to having to manually pick up arrows). If you think you have less clicks, think it through... everything I list is required to get the arrows to the mage, enchant, and back to the rogue.

enchanting is a massive chore. way, way, way, too intensive and annoying to be worth it.

a cleaner interface would solve many of these problems. i should not have to click that many times to do such a simple task.

from a 'user' perspective, we know what I want already: enchanted arrows. So, the easiest solution is to just make enchantment 'stick' and not run out. Simple and effective, and solves everything. The only drawback is that it doesn't cost mana every time, but really, it doesn't cost enough to really affect energy anyway and the gain in user interface is massive, so to me the benefits dramatically outweigh the costs.

Or, I suppose, for a more complex solution you could make it a 'passive' spell that costs a permanent percentage of energy (light could work this way too) for as long as you have it active. Same end result, but now you'd an associated mana cost.