Game designers being plain unfair

[Sol_HSA]

There's some situations in CRPGs where you feel that the designers are being plain unfair. I don't mean unwinnable fights or impossible puzzles (although there are some of those as well). I mean things like:

- Near the end of Betrayal at Krondor, after passing the last possible shop in the game, you find a treasure chest with more money than you'd ever need.
- In Lands of Lore, you find a "very good item" (like weapon of massive damage or endless healing potion), get to play with it for a while, and then have to give it up to continue.

Can you think of other things like these?

[Kadaeux]

Good question, and examples. *Thinks*

Hmm, this is going WAAAY back.

Wizardry VI Bane of the Cosmic Forge.

IF you screwed up picking a lock at certain points that door was jammed forever more, even if you found the key, even when it was a door critical to finishing the game.

[Saice]

IF you screwed up picking a lock at certain points that door was jammed forever more, even if you found the key, even when it was a door critical to finishing the game.

The Lock Jam has been an issue in more then a few games. Hence why you see a lot of "This door needs a key" in modern titles. Because the devs know if you give the player the option they will try and pick that lock and if they jam it you just wrecked their game. Though it adds the problem of Hey I have 47 billion points in lock pick why is this wood door stopping me?

I feel Designers are unfair when they chose to use the Start AWESOME then toss you to nothing after the intro. Either because the games a flash back or you had your powers taken or what not. It is neat to show what you can do that way but at the same time it a huge kick in the nuts to have it they YONK! its gone. Darksiders is a recent game I remember it doing that.

The worst. "To be continued" when there is no clue on the box that it is Part 1 or what not. Soul Reaver did that to me. Nothing about it being half a game or anything on the box and right at the climax where you are all OMG You did not just... Dude hunting you down is going to be awesome.... WHAT THE HELL???? Yep because of that never bought another game from them.

[Whisper]

We need to come to common definition of "fair" and "unfair".
To topic starter: what you, yourself, define as unfair in crpgs?

For example, if players does silly thing and gets stuck, its fair or not.
If you warned that besides great treasure in some local area - you would also face great danger and it happens and you die - fair or not.
If NPCs blatantly lie to you about some important aspect of game - its fair or not.
If game is made to the point of some complex rpg system (like Dark Eye, Realms of Arkania) and some skills you develop wouldnt be used in game at all - this is fair or not.
If game has only one save and each death of character in party is auto-saved, this is fair or not.


TL&DR: I need your understanding what is fair, in your opinion.

[Sol_HSA]

I feel Designers are unfair when they chose to use the Start AWESOME then toss you to nothing after the intro. Either because the games a flash back or you had your powers taken or what not. It is neat to show what you can do that way but at the same time it a huge kick in the nuts to have it they YONK! its gone. Darksiders is a recent game I remember it doing that.

Prototype did this. First level with full powers, then Yoink! - go to flashback where you have no powers at all and start to get experience. I didn't feel that was horribly unfair, though, only unnecessary.

As for darksiders, I didn't feel that the player was horribly "awesome" at any point. =) Cheated all stats to max and still run-of-the-mill cannonfodder enemies took several hits. Gave up on the game after that. If the game isn't fun, and can't even be made fun through cheats.. well, there's other games out there.

[Saice]

I feel Designers are unfair when they chose to use the Start AWESOME then toss you to nothing after the intro. Either because the games a flash back or you had your powers taken or what not. It is neat to show what you can do that way but at the same time it a huge kick in the nuts to have it they YONK! its gone. Darksiders is a recent game I remember it doing that.

Prototype did this. First level with full powers, then Yoink! - go to flashback where you have no powers at all and start to get experience. I didn't feel that was horribly unfair, though, only unnecessary.

I guess I should clear that statement up a bit. It is not that you are weaker that bothers me so much. It is losing basic powers and skills. I would have no issue with the power loss/flash back style of intros if you keep the basic ability but in a weaker state.

Say you have a handful of melee attacks and combos in an intro then BAM! WEAKEN! If I still have those moves just they don't do as much damage/reach as far/work as fast. Then I'm fine with it. I can enjoy the rebuilding aspect of gameplay. But if I got only Press X to attack thats a bit upsetting to me. It makes me feel that the Devs just unfairly wasted my time on something that could have been a cut scene. It is more unfair if some of the abilities you had in the intro you never get back because then I have to waste time trying to figure out how that ability unlocks only to find out it not possible.

[Sol_HSA]

Ah well, quick time events are a completely different topic altogether.

[Saice]

Ah well, quick time events are a completely different topic altogether.

I would straight up murder who ever thought QTEs were a fun idea.

I can not think of one game where a QTE popped up and I was all. OH this is fun rock on!

[Sol_HSA]

Ah well, quick time events are a completely different topic altogether.

I would straight up murder who ever thought QTEs were a fun idea.

I can not think of one game where a QTE popped up and I was all. OH this is fun rock on!

Prince of Persia: Two Thrones comes to mind as the closest thing.

Anyway, we're derailing. Can anyone think of something like I mentioned on my first post?

[Kadaeux]

Ah well, quick time events are a completely different topic altogether.

I would straight up murder who ever thought QTEs were a fun idea.

I can not think of one game where a QTE popped up and I was all. OH this is fun rock on!

Prince of Persia: Two Thrones comes to mind as the closest thing.

Anyway, we're derailing. Can anyone think of something like I mentioned on my first post?

Hmm, another good example would be the times in games where you're absolutely kicking the proverbial crap out of the enemy, the sort of ass-kicking there is no recovery from.

And then a scripted event goes and forces you to lose/die/etc.