Grimrock

First off there will be mucho spoilers in this thread, you have been warned!

Before I start gushing: what wasn't so great.

Puzzles
-You know the checkered room? "don't let it fool you." Isn't a Hint or clue!
-Putting a hint for one puzzles near another puzzles is just mean.
-two difficulty levels please. One for monsters and one for puzzles. Maybe the easy puzzle level has more hints?

In General
-Playing LoG can be oddly draining. problem because the game is so tense.

What was Great!

the spell system.
- prepping spells BEFORE a fight. I'm not sure why but, doing something when you know a fights coming was great.
- discovering new spell and potions.
- write down spells so I can have my own spell book! Really helped me get into the game.
- I tended to remember spells by the patterns they made. That was a whole lot more involving the clicking the "fireball" button.

Puzzles
-some times the where simply inspired.

fighting
- fighter need energy to! So no stat is useless!
- Every fight needs you full attention and can kill you. (ok, the mid game snails aren't but...)

audio
- oh sh*t. Whats that new noise?!

Light
-heheh. Dumb ogre so easy to OH-HELL-MY-LIGHT-JUST-WENT-OUT!!!

Text
- less text means that when there IS text I'm reading every bit of it and maybe writing it down.
- thank you for not loading me up with fantasy jargon that I'm just going to forget.

How the game started
- Your naked in a dungeon...good luck!

I loved the game and I'm hoping we can get more soon!

So what did the rest of you like dislike about the game? Also what were the first thought when you saw the end boss? me: "You got to be kidding OH-CRAP-I'M-DEAD!"

I agree with some hints never actually relating nor helping with puzzles. I especially hated how they put a scroll near the checkered room yet it DOESN'T mean anything for that current puzzle.

The last boss, while very well thought out, its just not that fun. Your being destroyed by common enemies more often then actually the boss killing you.

What I liked was just how tense everything was. Fumbling with a spell, more then once, killed one of my dudes if they weren't able to move. Likewise with lights and getting lost. It punished you for rushing and thats great, just awesome.

I find it kind of odd how the checkered room had it's own achievement, I found it rather easy.

the Good:

-- yeah, splat naked into a dungeon, constant terror for the first few levels
-- a lot of style and immersion, really great mood achieved overall
-- secret button hunting. that "you found a secret!" sound has become just as pleasurable now as the Zelda one...

the Bad:

-- ruining the first several parties i made because the stats and skills just don't work in practice the way you would hope (how many skill points do i get per level, and is this "skilled" perk worth it??? gee, i dunno!)
-- the annoyance of fiddling with torches all the time
-- the graphical slow-down which isn't due to my machine's power. being laggy can mean that many puzzles are absolutely undoable...

the Ugly:

-- mages suck. they're horrible. they're HORRIBLE! what a waste of time hauling him through that dungeon, and all the frustration of coddling him along the way...
-- the end boss fight. i can't see shit, cap'n! somewhere around here there's a rolling cube of death, but who knows where! oh, look, i found a pit for BILLIONTH time while trying to maneuver around all the monsters and cube of rolling death... not "difficult" or "hard" or "tense", just fucking frustrating.
-- short. one of the main problems with buying this game is that i got so little for my money. more frustration about the little obvious things it lacked than enjoyment of "old school dungeon crawling".

NakedGranny wrote:the Good:

-- yeah, splat naked into a dungeon, constant terror for the first few levels
-- a lot of style and immersion, really great mood achieved overall
-- secret button hunting. that "you found a secret!" sound has become just as pleasurable now as the Zelda one...

the Bad:

-- ruining the first several parties i made because the stats and skills just don't work in practice the way you would hope (how many skill points do i get per level, and is this "skilled" perk worth it??? gee, i dunno!)
-- the annoyance of fiddling with torches all the time
-- the graphical slow-down which isn't due to my machine's power. being laggy can mean that many puzzles are absolutely undoable...

the Ugly:

-- mages suck. they're horrible. they're HORRIBLE! what a waste of time hauling him through that dungeon, and all the frustration of coddling him along the way...
-- the end boss fight. i can't see shit, cap'n! somewhere around here there's a rolling cube of death, but who knows where! oh, look, i found a pit for BILLIONTH time while trying to maneuver around all the monsters and cube of rolling death... not "difficult" or "hard" or "tense", just fucking frustrating.
-- short. one of the main problems with buying this game is that i got so little for my money. more frustration about the little obvious things it lacked than enjoyment of "old school dungeon crawling".

Well, since you had a mage, you shouldn't have really needed torches. Like, as soon as I found that scroll of light spell, I only carried a few torches around in case of torch puzzles.

And in my first playthrough, my mage was actually my hardest hitter. I'm not sure how you would have had a horrible mage. Pick one main type of magic to specialize in (fire worked for me), put a few points into another type of magic for things that will be immune to that type of magic (ice for example), then put a bunch into spellcraft to get more mana and huge spell casting cooldown reduction, and you'll have a character capable of putting out ~150 damage with a few simple clicks every couple of seconds (Greater fireball from the Fire skill tree and that one red orb that also increases fireball damage). I almost went with a party of 2 mages for my second playthrough until I realized I would get sick of casting spells in battle all the time. One mage is probably enough for any party.

That checkered room scroll was actually a clue.
I knew instantly what it meant. The room had a grid of pressure plates and the clue implied that they need to be checkered.
Easy. I figured it out as soon as I read it.

Anyway my list:

Good:
Suspense, tension and feeling of it all. Never did the game release from it's grasp.
Balance between combat, exploration and thinking out.
So many places to discover. I still have couple secrets I know nothing about.
Figuring out things at your own will, like spells, herbalism and how some stuff work on levels.

Interesting, but could have used more love:
Spells and herbalism felt a bit limited. Generally refreshing compared to other games, but I wish there would have been more to find out and to do with them.
Creature types had good variability, but could have used a creature type or two that can break the 2x2 auto-win tactic.
Hidden switches could have been more varied. To me they were too easy to find as you always knew at what points in wall to concentrate. Maybe harder switches for some optional secrets.

The bad:
Couple puzzles were irritating rather than provoking. I knew instantly I need a rock, but now I just have to find one. Some people like this sort, but to me it just felt redundant.
Cube adds. The boss monster was fun and interesting, but it was just annoying to die because one lurker blocks your way. Felt a bit cheating.
Hitting yourself with magic bolts. Especially in the final fight and ogres. Just silly that you can outrun your own magic missiles. No idea why that has to be a mechanic.


Overall; best game that has come out since Classic Doom Mod (for Doom3).
Only thing that I think needs fixing was the last one of my list, hitting yourself in the back because you outrun your own magic.
Other complaints are more a matter of opinion.

More like this Almost Human, I will gladly pay the same price again for another 15-hour dungeon.
Make me scared once more!

The good: Everything, from the combat system, the mob, the environment, the puzzle, Aha moment, the lore, the secrets, and more

The bad: None, consider the amount of money Ive spent for the game which is less than $15, less than a year for dev to complete this beautiful game, and hours and hours gameplay time for that amount of money....meh I cant complaint. Its all worth it.

If you find some things in the game that considerably hard for you or irritating for you, remember there are always a hint. It forces you to use your brain and think.

-- short. one of the main problems with buying this game is that i got so little for my money. more frustration about the little obvious things it lacked than enjoyment of "old school dungeon crawling".

Then this is not the game for you, simple as that...

NakedGranny wrote:-- short. one of the main problems with buying this game is that i got so little for my money.

Lol, wut? Depending on how quickly you completed it, this game costs no more than $2 an hour. What other fun things in life are this cheap? If you think you've somehow been cheated, you have a very strange understanding of "good value."

Just finished it tonight... Took 28 hours according to steam. The overall impression was really good and I would definitely buy future DLCs or whatever they come up with, should they chose to make any. This will probably be a ridiculously long post.

GOOD:
- Simple, yet unique and addicting gameplay
Most of the different types of gameplay (combat, puzzles, exploring, etc) in LoG have a charm of their own and although it might be simple, it's very solid, enjoyable and addicting.
- For the most part great puzzles
Very creative and a good mix of different types of puzzles. Difficult, but not too difficult. The secret levels were great.
- Opportunities for loads of future content
Levels, races, classes, skills, spells, dungeons, monsters, items. Solid game to build upon.
- LoG stays true to itself.
The game is everything it promises to be, which many other games now a days can't live up to.

BAD:
- Movement (speed) of the camera / first person view
After spending hours upon hours trying to find hidden / secret buttons, my head got kinda dizzy. Moving along the wall(s) turning right, then left, moving one step ahead and doing the same thing over and over again wasn't pleasant... I think it has something to do with how the camera moves... it's very fast.. at least for me. Had to take a break after every couple of hours - which of course probably is a good thing
Even though finding secrets and hidden items was fun, the experience was dizzying to me.
- XP
This probably needs a bit of work. My party consisted of 1 tank, 1 fighter, 1 rouge and 1 mage. I specialized the Tank in Armors, since it seemed like the ideal choice for a Tank (didn't regret it). But the problem was, he was so bad at hitting monsters. So for him to get full XP I had to wait until he hit an enemy.. which sometimes could take a while.
Another problem with the current XP system, is when the party is fighting more than 1 monster at a time. Often, you wont have time to do much - especially if you're surrounded. You don't have time to get all your 4 party members to hit more than 2 monsters... usually... so they miss out on a lot of XP. I often loaded my last save, just so I could get the full XP.
- A few puzzles were tedious
I guess not all of the puzzles can be fantastic. Many were, but some were very frustrating.
- End game boss
There are already major spoilers in this thread, so let's just say the end boss wasn't a joy to fight. The idea behind it was great, up until the time the random monster spawns.
Obviously the final boss needs to be difficult to defeat in a game like this, but the end fight could have been done slightly better.
- Weird Item bonuses / Dual Wield
When I equip my Ogre Hammer it only gives me +14 accuracy... I went from -4 to 10... - it's a +20 bonus on Ogre Hammer. (ok... apparently I need glasses).
Also... Make it possible to attack with one weapon in each hand... or at least give some attack bonus when having two weapons equipped.


FUTURE IMPROVEMENTS:
- LoG needs a better balance between Races, Classes & Items
For the most part, the current system is fine. But there is definitely room for improvement. Dex has nothing to do with missile weapons / damage? Str is all a ranged rouge needs? Minotaurs are the best rouges? It sounds silly imo. A missile weapon like a bow or a crossbow ALWAYS hit. And a rogue with the Missile Weapons skill don't need any other skill. It's one of the few classes who can max out on one skill and be very successful. They get very powerful later on I discovered around midgame. They have really fast attack speed, have decent crit dam (with later perks), MUCH easier to handle than mages and fire TWO arrows at a time that ALWAYS hit? Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. That sounds pretty awesome... but probably over powered too. I wish I had made my rogue a Minotaur with max Str, the Head Hunter (+3 AP for every skull) and Aggressive traits. That would have been one mean ranged rogue.
Even without that, my Lizard rogue with max Dex did a TON of damage and was by far the main damage dealer. So much actually, that to get my other party members enough XP, he could only shoot 1 time at a monster if I had to be safe (unless with the toughest monsters).
Currently there are absolutely no real downside to the ranged rogue. There are no Dex requirements for any of the bows... which further proves you don't really need Dex at all to be a good ranged rogue. Actually... having Dex on ranged rogues is a DISadvantage, which makes no sense.

During my playthrough I compared the rogue to my mage character. Went heavy Ice Magic at first, then some Spellcraft. When I discovered that the Lizzards were immune to Ice, I started leveling him in Fire Magic. He ended the game with 22 Fire Magic, 33 Ice Magic and 18 Spellcraft.
Ice Magic is good for freezing enemies... which was almost all he was good for. Maybe if I'd taken Ice Magic to 50 instead, he'd be better... but I feared he'd be useless in the endgame if he'd only had 1 school of magic.
What really stands out with mages is if you have to fight more than 1 monster. Then casting spells suddenly become much more hurried and stressful. Comparing that to the ranged rogue, who doesn't use mana and have a one button attack that fires two arrows... the mage class gets owned pretty hard.
The Fighter Class is mostly well done I think. Don't have many issues here.

Then onto the Items. I liked the two different armor sets (heavy and light). I didn't like the weapon choices, though. SO many unique swords and so few axes / maces / missile weapons. And of course I didn't choose the Sword Skill for any of my fighters. Wish I had...
A few more options when choosing items would be nice.

I'd also be pleased, if we'd get 5 Skill Points pr. level instead of 4. Not a huge difference, but I barely got to max one skill. I like the fact, that you can't just all max and have to choose... but 5 SP pr. level would be great.

- Issue Commands / Tactic List
This would be a very nice addition. With inspiration from Dragon Age (and their predecessors), a simple, easy tactic list would be nice.
Mainly for drinking potions. Would make the game easier, but with no hotbars, drinking potions in a battle can be quite hectic and usually leads to missed attack opportunities.
Could work for mages and preparing spells too... like 'If you see a ranged enemy, prepare "X" spell'.
Not sure if this could be made into the game.. But I feel like something has to be done about not having hot bars / quick slots etc... that goes mostly for mages, though.
Or... you could add something to the Spellcraft skill. Like every 7 levels of Spellcraft, your mage can 'remember' his spell 1 extra time. So if you had 21 Spell Craft, you could fire 3 Frost Bolts without having to 'redraw' the formula. That would probably be an easy fix.

That's it for now I guess..

SodanKerjuu wrote:Couple puzzles were irritating rather than provoking. I knew instantly I need a rock, but now I just have to find one. Some people like this sort, but to me it just felt redundant.

Don't know if you were aware, but for any pressure plate that doesn't require a monster or your party to activate can be activated with literally any item, even a single arrow.

But anyway, the bad:
1. A bit clunky interface. Not that I had a problem with fiddling with torches or swapping arrows, but accidentally leftclicking a hand when I wanted to attack or cast a spell got annoying. I would have preferred if moving items was a "click and hold" affair rather than "click to pick up, click to drop". That way, accidental left clicks wouldn't be such a big deal.
2. In the prison, assembling the boss: with the exception of the bladed gear, it's not clear where on the wall you're supposed to click, leading me to initially think that the (correct) items in my inventory were simply the wrong ones because the panels wouldn't accept them. I spent way more time searching for more parts, with the necessary parts already in my backpack, than I should have had to.

Should have been expanded upon:
1. The wall tiles should have been varied. Even if the entire floor maintains the exact same tileset theme, seeing the exact same pattern of bricks and their seams got old, and it meant that the secret buttons were always in the same spot. (Which, to be fair, is kind of important for rooms like the poison trap in the tomb that requires pushing 3 buttons while barely being able to see, but elsewhere it makes secret-hunting a bit too predictable.)
2. The automapper could have offered more opportunities for manual mapping. For instance, offering different marks besides the letter "N" to place notes with, or the ability to mark a wall segment rather than a floor tile.
3. I wish more enemies came in formation, like the legionnaires or green lizards, so that mage spells were more highly valued.

The good:
1. The puzzles, obviously. I thought they were all great.
2. I liked the way the difficulty scaled, and it never relied on throwing insta-kill monsters or traps on you (this is assuming normal difficulty). A lot of the times when I would die, it would be due to several small tactical errors piling up, and usually there was always a way out, even if it was a desperate long shot. The reason I like this so much is because it gives players less of a reason to spam quicksave and quickload in order to beat an engagement "perfectly."