Grimrock

Okay, I am not far into the game and I have a very "normal" party. Human Fighter, Mino Fighter, Liz Rogue, and Insect Mage. Pretty balanced but after reading a bit on here I am considering changing things up a bit. I have a couple of questions however:

1- Do you even need a Mage? I mean they level slowly and there magic damage is nice, but I almost think a rogue with a bow or a handful of throwing daggers might be just as good with a bunch of skill points dropped in Throwing Weapons and a lot of points put into Strength.

2- What about the Assassination Skill? It seems like a cool skill for a second rogue in the back row. Being able to attack with melee weapons from the back row and being able to backstab could be very powerful and would add a bit of stategy to combat. This character could also dump some points into a weapon skill like axe or something. Start him/her with Aggressive and Skilled and put a ton of points into strength for more damage.

So here is the build I am thinking of:

1. Human Fighter- Dex and Vit. Evasive and skilled. Armor up for light armor and sword. This would create a quick and accurate warrior that could dodge incoming attacks.

2. Lizard Fighter- Dex and Vit. Evasive and skilled. Unarmed Attack and ?. This guy would never get hit and could deal out some damage without having to carry anything. I also like the idea of a Monk-like character.

3. Mino Rogue- Str and Dex. Aggressive and Skilled. Assassination and Axe/mace?. This would be another melee fighter type that could drop massive damage from the rear. Armor would not need to be high, but more importantly all points could be put into strength and weapon skills for maxed damage and none into Dex because this guy would be in the back row.

4. Liz/Human Rogue- Str and Vit. Agressive and Skilled. Missle weapons. This would be my long range character.

So what are your thoughts on the Mage-less party.

Moliclan wrote: 1- Do you even need a Mage? I mean they level slowly and there magic damage is nice, but I almost think a rogue with a bow or a handful of throwing daggers might be just as good with a bunch of skill points dropped in Throwing Weapons and a lot of points put into Strength.

Nope completed the game with no mages at all and few to no range attacks.

Moliclan wrote: 2- What about the Assassination Skill? It seems like a cool skill for a second rogue in the back row. Being able to attack with melee weapons from the back row and being able to backstab could be very powerful and would add a bit of stategy to combat. This character could also dump some points into a weapon skill like axe or something. Start him/her with Aggressive and Skilled and put a ton of points into strength for more damage.

It is nice both my rogues got up to allow attacks from the back row ASAP and it was a god send. Backstabs not really anything you can count on. It takes space and a slow moving (or frozen) target to get around to the back for a backstab. It is possible in a lot of places just not something you can bank on. Rogues only weapon skill is daggers but thats not a bad thing theres a few nice ones.

Moliclan wrote: So here is the build I am thinking of:

1. Human Fighter- Dex and Vit. Evasive and skilled. Armor up for light armor and sword. This would create a quick and accurate warrior that could dodge incoming attacks.

2. Lizard Fighter- Dex and Vit. Evasive and skilled. Unarmed Attack and ?. This guy would never get hit and could deal out some damage without having to carry anything. I also like the idea of a Monk-like character.

3. Mino Rogue- Str and Dex. Aggressive and Skilled. Assassination and Axe/mace?. This would be another melee fighter type that could drop massive damage from the rear. Armor would not need to be high, but more importantly all points could be put into strength and weapon skills for maxed damage and none into Dex because this guy would be in the back row.

4. Liz/Human Rogue- Str and Vit. Agressive and Skilled. Missle weapons. This would be my long range character.

So what are your thoughts on the Mage-less party.

It is vary doable I did it completed the game (link in sig for details) and had a blast.

Yeah mages are really not needed. Lots of micromanagement for not that great dps. I would just replace a mage with ranged rogue. Does more dps with considerably less clicking.

Poomermon wrote:Yeah mages are really not needed. Lots of micromanagement for not that great dps. I would just replace a mage with ranged rogue. Does more dps with considerably less clicking.

I would argue that range is also overrated. There is only 1 area where range attacks are required. And you can do that with bombs. Over all good old melee in a 2x2 was how I spent 90% of the game.

In the early mid game a skilled mage with fireball can be vary violent. But later on enchanted arrows on bows start to level it out and are just plain easier to manage.

I think the mage though will be made more important with an expansions of spells (I hope and assume). Some nice support spells could be great like classic D&D rule set 1 style.

One thing to note is that there are some areas where you will have problems defending your back row, and they might die right away. My rogue with 50 in unarmed skill is by far the most reliable character I have. Even on hard, there hasn't been any encounter so far (dungeon level 10) where he hasn't been able to straight up kill everything, although the rest of the party died 3 rounds into the fight.It has actually gotten to the point where where was one level I cleared almost entirely with 3 dead characters. Dodge would probably have made him even tankier, but then it would take too long to actually kill anything. I'm now debating whether I should put the final skill points into dodge or assassination.

UknowsI wrote:One thing to note is that there are some areas where you will have problems defending your back row, and they might die right away. My rogue with 50 in unarmed skill is by far the most reliable character I have. Even on hard, there hasn't been any encounter so far (dungeon level 10) where he hasn't been able to straight up kill everything, although the rest of the party died 3 rounds into the fight.It has actually gotten to the point where where was one level I cleared almost entirely with 3 dead characters. Dodge would probably have made him even tankier, but then it would take too long to actually kill anything. I'm now debating whether I should put the final skill points into dodge or assassination.

If hes front row dodge. Assassination is nice but really the bang for you buck in down the skill tree a ways.

you don't need mages but unless you want to play the entire game in the dark somebody has to hold a torch, if your front line guys do it then they can't use a shield for evasion and if your rogue holds it you can't use bow and arrows. Mage loses nothing from holding a torch and even gets a light spell at spellcasting level 5.

With Mage the problem is the time required to set-up the runes for spell casting; I think what would be nice is an option that runes do not reset after casting so you can cast the same spell over and over in battle. Or a button that re-selects the runes of the previous spell given you can have the runes preset before you enter the battle.

r3sistance wrote:you don't need mages but unless you want to play the entire game in the dark somebody has to hold a torch, if your front line guys do it then they can't use a shield for evasion and if your rogue holds it you can't use bow and arrows.

Since I did not go missile or ranged this was not an issue. I usually had 1 rogue with a torch and the other with a shield.

Also as a side the dark is not so bad. Your eyes adjust after a few moments and you get fairly decent view distance. There was a we levels I did mostly in the dark for one reason or another.

The darkness also seems to affect the monsters too.