This is SO much like Dungeon Master...

[seebs]

And I saw one review panning the game because, after a few levels, you can't stand toe-to-toe with mobs. Well, no, you can't.

I think DM's dungeon design was a little more polished in a few spots. I have run into a couple of cases in Grimrock where I felt like I was not given adequate opportunities to avoid damage. For instance, in the Time and Tide area on Level 4, the flying thing that blocks you from moving over pits? Not really controllable by the player. I was also a little annoyed with a spider room which I had to enter and search for a button to get away from the spiders before they killed me; I am happier when I can switch from puzzles to combat rather than trying to do both at once, 'cuz I sort of overload then.

Still, this has a lot of what made DM such an amazing game, and the amazing similarities in dungeon dressing are beautiful. There is sometimes a fine line between a rip-off and an homage; this is an homage, and a very good one.

I am sort of torn on the XP system -- I don't really like the thing where my characters can easily get out of sync, and I don't have the kind of control that I did in DM, with the four-class-at-once system.

Haven't yet found a place with an infinite food supply, but I am optimistic that I will eventually.

[NoMaD]

The game also resembles Dungeon Hack... Visually at least. Dungeon Hack had one thing going for it that this one doesnt... Advanced Dungeons and Drangons.

I still love this game though, and am hoping that the level editor or a "Random dungeon" option will come soon!

[Goblin]

Your not the only guy wanting random dungeons

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=729

(Note to self, after beating this hunt down old copy of dungeon hack!)

[xdeath]

Pfft, no this game resembles Eye of the Beholder.

[seebs]

Pfft, no this game resembles Eye of the Beholder.

... can't tell if serious.

[Hariolor]

Only a few levels in so far - the ol' "DM two-step" works beautifully, with caveats.

One of the problems with DM and even CSB, was that getting quick with the keyboard and not going toe-to-toe was too easy in most cases. I've beaten DM easily using no weapons or armor and just punching everything to death because damage is so easy to avoid.

So far, I really enjoy the balance I'm finding with enemies of varying speeds (eg: big vs small herders), and the occasional room/area that makes it very hard to avoid damage (eg: enter your tomb). It creates more need for strategic thinking, and also gives an appropriate sense of foreboding when I see a big room with pillars/pits that will impede my movement.

Even more fun when I *know* that lever/plate/etc is going to spring a trap, and yet I have no choice but to do so in order to proceed. Love it.

[seebs]

I actually found the "Enter Your Grave" room frustrating, just because we simply couldn't hack it...

SpoilerShow

Until I realized I could just have a weak character throw a heavy thing onto the plate.

I frequently find the combat a bit too hard without all those fancy tricks.

[HeavyMetalMonk]

I actually found the "Enter Your Grave" room frustrating, just because we simply couldn't hack it...

SpoilerShow

Until I realized I could just have a weak character throw a heavy thing onto the plate.

I frequently find the combat a bit too hard without all those fancy tricks.

Really? I didn't even die in that room. Just kill the first skeleton really fast and you'll only have to juggle two, it wasn't hard. It's probably the first "Oh shit" moment in the game but it wasn't bad.

[krayzkrok]

And I saw one review panning the game because, after a few levels, you can't stand toe-to-toe with mobs. Well, no, you can't.

It helps people to figure out combat in this game if I describe it as a grid-based FPS. It's not, of course, but it gets the mindset away from the RPG trope of being locked into an encounter once it happens. Even Dungeon Master was designed so that you could use these so-called "exploits" to survive against the tougher creatures. The designers weren't stupid, they knew how their combat worked.

I think DM's dungeon design was a little more polished in a few spots. I have run into a couple of cases in Grimrock where I felt like I was not given adequate opportunities to avoid damage. For instance, in the Time and Tide area on Level 4, the flying thing that blocks you from moving over pits? Not really controllable by the player.

In most cases this is because you haven't figured out the right mechanic. That flying thing you describe? It's 100% controllable if you think about how the AI works.

SpoilerShow

Throw a rock at it, or shoot it with an arrow, and it will immediately approach you to engage combat, so you can fight it on solid ground.

I was also a little annoyed with a spider room which I had to enter and search for a button to get away from the spiders before they killed me;

I'd have said you've chosen the hardest possible way of trying to solve that! Far easier to deal with the spiders first.

I am sort of torn on the XP system -- I don't really like the thing where my characters can easily get out of sync, and I don't have the kind of control that I did in DM, with the four-class-at-once system.

See, I'm not sure why this is a problem. In Dungeon Master characters gained levels specific to certain skills, so fighter levels and wizard levels. All four characters were at different levels throughout the game (except at the start) because they specialised in different styles. Grimrock isn't quite the same obviously, but they do gain levels faster or slower as you progress. My mage was way behind for ages until he learned a couple of nice spells and now he's overtaken the rest. But I've just equipped my tanks with much more powerful weapons so it may swing back again. I don't feel the need to see them all on the same level, that just seems like OCD.

[seebs]

In most cases this is because you haven't figured out the right mechanic. That flying thing you describe? It's 100% controllable if you think about how the AI works.

SpoilerShow

Throw a rock at it, or shoot it with an arrow, and it will immediately approach you to engage combat, so you can fight it on solid ground.

That would totally work if it were not 12+ squares away from me, around two corners, at the start of the scenario. I can't see it or interact with it until I start the running sequence, and then I can't retreat.

I was also a little annoyed with a spider room which I had to enter and search for a button to get away from the spiders before they killed me;

I'd have said you've chosen the hardest possible way of trying to solve that! Far easier to deal with the spiders first.

Two spiders. Can't two-step them both for very long, especially with how fast spiders are. Then you are in a corner and at least one spider is flanking you.

I am sort of torn on the XP system -- I don't really like the thing where my characters can easily get out of sync, and I don't have the kind of control that I did in DM, with the four-class-at-once system.

See, I'm not sure why this is a problem. In Dungeon Master characters gained levels specific to certain skills, so fighter levels and wizard levels. All four characters were at different levels throughout the game (except at the start) because they specialised in different styles. Grimrock isn't quite the same obviously, but they do gain levels faster or slower as you progress. My mage was way behind for ages until he learned a couple of nice spells and now he's overtaken the rest. But I've just equipped my tanks with much more powerful weapons so it may swing back again. I don't feel the need to see them all on the same level, that just seems like OCD.

Well, autism actually. But yeah; it is a sort of oddly obsessive behavior. But then, I did that in DM, too -- I carefully rotated characters through roles so everyone stayed roughly synchronized in all four classes.