Grimrock 2 impossible for some?

[Azel]

Fair analysis, minmay. Here is how I see that whole "Yes Man player ego motive" thingy:

Take any online competitive RPG like World of WarCraft, Dark Age of Camelot, Warhammer Online, Shadowbane... and look at what game Developers have done:

1) Update the game software to "nerf" one or more player classes.
2) Update the game software to "enhance" one or more player classes.

These are typically referred to as "balance changes" by the game Developer; and this has always caused huge uproars in the gaming community. The uproar typically translates to epic threads on each of their associated Forums. VN Boards is a prime example of this (practically every major DAoC class balance war took place there).

In situation 1 above, the class that gets nerfed was usually the topic of heated debate for months prior to the game update. Like in DAoC, the Midgard Thane class started off awesome (similar to a Battle Mage in Grimrock). They would wear chain armor, wield a sword and shield, and cast spells (like big lighting hammers). They dominated PvP until so much complaining about how they are "overpowered" on the VN Boards lead to Mythic 'balancing" the class... by "nerfing" them. That nerf rendered the class virtually useless in PvP; hence the class became "gimp." They were fairly useless in PvE as well.

All these terms - overpowered, nerfed, gimp, balanced - should be familiar to any online RPG gamer (although I assume Isaac thinks I'm talking about different types of hamburger toppings).

In this historical example, we can say that all the whining and complaining about Thanes lead the Developer, Mythic, to make a "Yes Man" decision to nerf the class, thus satisfying the "player ego" of every gamer who was pulling an Isaac (whining and complaining) on the forums about getting killed "too much" by Thanes in PvP. These whiny gamers would threaten to quite DAoC until the Thane class was properly balanced (and quitting the game meant less monthly subscription revenue for Mythic).

This has happened to numerous player classes in virtually every major online RPG - especially those that fully support PvP. And these are the only scenario's - in my personal opinion - where any game Developer can be accused of making "yes man decisions that appease player ego."

Yes, single-player games do allow for the gamer to achieve a sense of fulfillment through avatars in a fantasy world. However, that form of expression starts and stops when the gaming device is literally turned on and off. Unlike online RPG's, where the entire fantasy world - and your characters impact in that world - is constantly changing whether you are logged in or not. This is when Developers can be pressured in to making Yes Man decisions because this is the only time an outward expression of a player ego can exist. In single player games, the ego is limited to the local device and, in my opinion, can be expressed inward only.

Just my opinion of course, but a slightly better explanation than a blanket statement and unsubstantiated fast food reference. And for the record, I never played the overpowered Thane class in DAoC. Instead, my poor gimp Void Eldritch was killed by them very often in PvP. When facing a seemingly overpowered opponent my response has always been to "find a way to beat them" as opposed to whining on a forum until they get nerfed.

[MostlyHarmless]

personally i prefer burger king's angus bacon & cheese burger.

[Dr.Disaster]

personally i prefer burger king's angus bacon & cheese burger.

+1

[Isaac]

More insults; more backpeddling.

Insults, yes. Backpedaling, not at all.

You should know better than that.
In the least bit... it weakens your credibility; lacing your text distractive put-downs. You need these?

You backpedaled out of your Mc Donald's analogy once it fell apart. Your horrible analogy wasn't even complete.

Not at all. My analogy stands.

If Bethesda games are like Mc Donald's food, then what is Grimrock like? You only completed one part of the self-defeating analogy, complete the rest. Or you can keep backpedaling.

Hmmm... I would say... Marmite or Vegimite.

Bethesda games like Fallout 3 have won several Game of the Year awards. These are peer awards, from gamers who love gaming. So again, if that makes Bethesda like Mc Donald's, what does that make Almost Human like?

All you've shown yourself to be interested in is caustic gainsaying; that and attempting belittlement to avoid having to prove anything you've said once asked

Says the guy who keeps purposely avoiding explaining how Bethesda games are "Yes Man" games that appeal to player ego yet somehow Grimrock is different. I can prove my points by linking to Awards Bethesda has won over the years; what can you do besides quote hump and avoid stating a single fact?

GOTY awards are meaningless back patting. Bethesda makes great titles ~for what they are, but they are crap RPGs; in similar way as McDonalds own products [great for what they are ~but fast-food crap]. Yes... the analogy stands.

You listed a few things you don't like about games like Skyrim but failed to explain how your personal dislikes translate to proof of "Yes man ego motives." You haven't even explained how your dislikes about Skyrim are different in Grimrock - for anyone with a brain it is clear that the things you hate in Skyrim fall short even worse in Grimrock.

It needn't be explained. Skyrim & Grimrock do not compete with each other... in similar way as the sprinter does not compete with the discus throw. The core experience of these titles are completely dissimilar.

Nor have you explained how a single player RPG could be compared to a single player Dungeon Crawler. And of course, you have not explained how it is possible that single player games appeal to player ego's when it is only multiplayer games that allow an outword expression of ones ego.

And why should I care to? Because you need it?

*And... who said it was about outward expression? No one.

Several posters have called out your terrible logic but all you do is skip over it and cry about being insulted. I've read your other whiny posts in other threads as well, such as your complaints about the existence of Hot Keys.

So what do we know about Isaac,
1) You have a photo avatar of a 1980's game.
2) You complain about Hot Keys
3) You complain that single player games like Skyrim appeal to player ego
4) You think the dungeon crawler game, Grimrock, is a better RPG experience than actual RPG's like Skyrim
5) You think award winning game developers are no more than Fast Food restaurants

This list is more telling about you than me.
The first is patently wrong; but so easy not to be...

Also: The avatar is of a notable dungeoncrawler ~on a forum about a dungeon crawlers). The rest... each deliberately picks the worst way to interpret [IE. maliciously so] for the purpose of personal attacks; because that's how you [personally] argue.

*And of point 4... I [personally] would not call Skyrim an RPG... but neither would I call Grimrock 1 or 2 one; they are DungeonCrawlers and damn good ones. Where Skyrim fails as an RPG... Grimrock never attempts the task; [social interaction and political choice with affecting outcomes]. Grimrock is puzzle-play; Skyrim is treading water in a beautiful setting.

It's painfully obvious that you're just an old dude who hates all the "young kid stuff." Only kids like Mc Donald's, Hot Keys, and dumb RPG's with a persistent world. Hey, maybe you should just wear a wizards hat and play Checkers at the old folks home. That's a way better RPG experience - or so I read somewhere.

[Azel]

Enough posters other than you and myself have chimed in, and no one agrees with your take on Bethesda RPG's, nor your absurd broken analogy.

So far the only thing that can truly be compared to crappy Mc Donald's food are your responses

[Dr.Disaster]

I think ..

[Isaac]

Enough posters other than you and myself have chimed in, and no one agrees with your take on Bethesda RPG's, nor your absurd broken analogy.

So far the only thing that can truly be compared to crappy Mc Donald's food are your responses

I consider the matter won.

[Azel]

I proclaim my own victories on forums

You win a Happy Meal

[Isaac]

I proclaim my own victories on forums

You win a Happy Meal

Awlriight... we'll call it a draw.

[Anurias]

You do make for a convincing black knight Isaac.