Grimrock

I had to cheat and look at comments here to get past the torch and the skeleton puzzle. There's a logic to it, but I rather suspect I'd have never figured it out on my own (I'm still not used to thinking of catacombs as alcoves). I thought the note was a hint for where to look for the key.

Serpent bracer: I think it's fine to keep this trap deadly, but triggering it when a wrong item is placed in the alcove feels weird. Maybe trigger it if neither the bracer nor the skull are in the alcove?

There are several places where light leaks through secret doors, but the shadows of the crowerns at the lower level are particularly noticeable.

Found the illusionary wall based on the tapestry not tearing (actually not this time, but in an earlier playthrough). Even though I knew about the fireball room from previous comments, I still got killed a few times. Eventually got through by luck (moving along the north wall to stay far away from the heads to get more time to dodge).

BUG: Rainbow puzzle: if you take and replace a gem after solving the puzzle, the game crashes with message "#script_entity_3:19: duplicated entity id".

I had no idea what I did to open the secret with the tome inside until I read comments here. Not a serious issue, of course, but it's a bit confusing to be rewarded with a secret for walking somewhere in plain sight.

BUG: I pressed the button to open the gate to the central room. I killed the skeletons, then stepped in and the game crashed without error message, log says "#script_entity_10:4: attempt to index global 'pressure_plate_hidden_56' (a nil value)".

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Ancylus wrote:I found the time to play the latest version. Some notes:
I had to cheat and look at comments here to get past the torch and the skeleton puzzle. There's a logic to it, but I rather suspect I'd have never figured it out on my own (I'm still not used to thinking of catacombs as alcoves). I thought the note was a hint for where to look for the key.

I was hoping, as there is a catacomb skeleton holding a key in the very same room, that people would more easily get this. Maybe I need to tweak the wording of the note a bit? Or scrap it altogether? It was a pretty quickly tossed-off idea.

Ancylus wrote:Serpent bracer: I think it's fine to keep this trap deadly, but triggering it when a wrong item is placed in the alcove feels weird. Maybe trigger it if neither the bracer nor the skull are in the alcove?

You know by now how much I respect and value your (and everyone's!) opinion here, and I've certainly been swayed about things even after posting my own opinion (even in this room already, with the exit levers), but this one I'm not sure I agree with. The player walks into this room, looking at the teeth of two ogres (while the player is only level three or four), understands that it's not mandatory to finish this room to progress, and reads a sign on the wall (between the ogres) that states, in part: "A soul for our prize you'll give." Not a sword. Not mole jerky. It's a very specific puzzle (barely a puzzle, actually, it's an instruction). So, in my opinion, if you ain't got a soul, you shouldn't be mucking about with the ogres! It would feel weird (to me) if something didn't happen if I tried to give the beasties something they didn't ask for. Now, I don't like cheap deaths, but this one doesn't feel cheap to me; it feels like there is plenty of warning given. As always, however, I respect your opinion (and thank you for giving it to me!!) and I am open to further discussion, as I certainly don't wish to alienate players. This seems to me like maybe we've gotten too comfortable with today's games, though. You know if this were truly a Dungeon Master-era game, there'd be no quarter given in this room.

(I hope you don't think I'm angry/frustrated/ungrateful, etc. Tone is impossible to convey in textual conversation, so please know that I really am grateful and definitely interested in hearing your opinion!!!!)

Ancylus wrote:There are several places where light leaks through secret doors, but the shadows of the crowerns at the lower level are particularly noticeable.

Oh, bah. Someone mentioned this earlier, and I went into the room, scouring it for off shadows and weird lighting, and I couldn't find any. This time, I'll go back in and switch all my graphics options to see if I can find it. Because so much of this map is made up of secret doors, it's been a real bear to place lighting where it doesn't leak through something (which is why it's such a mix of ceiling lanterns, wall lanterns, and torches). Thanks for letting me know!

Ancylus wrote:Found the illusionary wall based on the tapestry not tearing (actually not this time, but in an earlier playthrough). Even though I knew about the fireball room from previous comments, I still got killed a few times. Eventually got through by luck (moving along the north wall to stay far away from the heads to get more time to dodge).

I'm not sure if this is a question or a comment? There are two clues about how to traverse this room: The note ("It is so important to see the path
that lies before us all.") and the floor of the room itself, where the player can see a specific path of dirt. I'm not sure what else I can do, but I'm open to suggestions if you think the clues aren't as obvious as they should be. Maybe I should move the corpse with the note into the archer room to help the player more easily make the connection? I absolutely want things to be fair.

Ancylus wrote:BUG: Rainbow puzzle: if you take and replace a gem after solving the puzzle, the game crashes with message "#script_entity_3:19: duplicated entity id".

Ooh, big one. Thanks. I'm sure that's due to the fact that I absolutely suck at scripting.

Ancylus wrote:I had no idea what I did to open the secret with the tome inside until I read comments here. Not a serious issue, of course, but it's a bit confusing to be rewarded with a secret for walking somewhere in plain sight.

That's dead, so no worries (as is the telemaze, yay!!). I would never do that in a map that was a standalone; it was only done that way because we were discouraged from putting Tomes in at all, and I wanted to make sure it was impossible to know about, but a nice treat if a player happened upon it (I shouldn't have linked it as an actual secret, and likely would have deleted the secret plate, etc, had it stayed as-is). I'm still going to have it in there, but now you'll know why you receive it (if you can get it).

Ancylus wrote:BUG: I pressed the button to open the gate to the central room. I killed the skeletons, then stepped in and the game crashed without error message, log says "#script_entity_10:4: attempt to index global 'pressure_plate_hidden_56' (a nil value)".

Yeah, JW found that earlier, and I thought I knew what had happened, but there really is a plate_56 so I need to tear through the code and find out what's going on. Right before I uploaded this version, I did an exported playthrough to the end (which is where you are, btw) but then added a simple script to delete several plates, one of which is 56. It has to be in that script, as everything else worked beautifully. I'm sorry you had to experience yet another crash (I'm just happy you made it through The Hub without a crash, so at least you know I really can do some things without crashing!).

Ancylus wrote:I do like the level overall, now that I've managed to get (mostly) through it. Apart from the crashes and the place where I got stuck, the issues I've raised are fairly minor.

You're very gracious and forgiving. Fairly minor! Next version will set your hard drive on fire.

Honestly, I don't know how you guys keep playing it at this point. If that were me, I'd be panicked every time I took a step, afraid that the blasted thing would crash again.

At the first room at the end of the teleport maze, a pillar where the small herders are, is flickering. I can see it flicker if I stand at 9 5 2 1.

I was hoping, as there is a catacomb skeleton holding a key in the very same room, that people would more easily get this. Maybe I need to tweak the wording of the note a bit? Or scrap it altogether? It was a pretty quickly tossed-off idea.

As I said, the key actually threw me off, since I thought the note was referring to it. Having something else in the catacombs to show people that they are alcoves is in principle a good idea, though. I'm not quite sure how to tweak the puzzle to make it clearer, have to consider it a bit.

You know by now how much I respect and value your (and everyone's!) opinion here, and I've certainly been swayed about things even after posting my own opinion (even in this room already, with the exit levers), but this one I'm not sure I agree with. The player walks into this room, looking at the teeth of two ogres (while the player is only level three or four), understands that it's not mandatory to finish this room to progress, and reads a sign on the wall (between the ogres) that states, in part: "A soul for our prize you'll give." Not a sword. Not mole jerky. It's a very specific puzzle (barely a puzzle, actually, it's an instruction). So, in my opinion, if you ain't got a soul, you shouldn't be mucking about with the ogres! It would feel weird (to me) if something didn't happen if I tried to give the beasties something they didn't ask for. Now, I don't like cheap deaths, but this one doesn't feel cheap to me; it feels like there is plenty of warning given. As always, however, I respect your opinion (and thank you for giving it to me!!) and I am open to further discussion, as I certainly don't wish to alienate players. This seems to me like maybe we've gotten too comfortable with today's games, though. You know if this were truly a Dungeon Master-era game, there'd be no quarter given in this room.

Don't get me wrong, I don't object to the deadliness of the puzzle at all, since it's voluntary and has a very fair warning. It's just the specific triggering condition that seems strange to me: I would expect the trap to trigger if I take the bracer without having placed the right item into the alcove, while other items would be ignored entirely. That said, this really isn't a big deal, just something that felt a little bit off.

I'm not sure if this is a question or a comment? There are two clues about how to traverse this room: The note ("It is so important to see the path
that lies before us all.") and the floor of the room itself, where the player can see a specific path of dirt. I'm not sure what else I can do, but I'm open to suggestions if you think the clues aren't as obvious as they should be. Maybe I should move the corpse with the note into the archer room to help the player more easily make the connection? I absolutely want things to be fair.

Comment, really. I got through in fairly short order overall and JW apparently figured it out pretty quickly, so I'd say it's working fine.

I don't know if I could solve the skeleton + torch puzzle on my own without reading it here though.

#script_entity_10:4: attempt to index global 'pressure_plate_hidden_56' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
#script_entity_10:4: in function <#script_entity_10:1>
[string "ScriptEntity.lua"]: in function 'onMessageReceived'
[string "MessageSystem.lua"]: in function 'sendMessageToEntity'
[string "MessageSystem.lua"]: in function 'broadcastMessage'
[string "TriggerEvents.lua"]: in function 'fire'
[string "PressurePlate.lua"]: in function 'pressed'
[string "PressurePlate.lua"]: in function 'updateState'
[string "PressurePlate.lua"]: in main chunk
[string "MessageSystem.lua"]: in function 'sendMessage'
[string "Map.lua"]: in function 'moveEntity'
[string "Party.lua"]: in function 'setPosition'
[string "Party.lua"]: in function 'update'
[string "Party.lua"]: in function 'update'
[string "Map.lua"]: in function 'updateEntities'
[string "Dungeon.lua"]: in function 'updateLevels'
[string "GameMode.lua"]: in function 'update'
[string "Grimrock.lua"]: in function 'display'
[string "Grimrock.lua"]: in main chunk

OS Version 6.2

OEM ID: 0
Number of processors: 8
Page size: 4096
Processor type: 586

Total memory: 8073 MB
Free memory: 5705 MB

Display device 0:
Device name: \\.\DISPLAY1
Device string: Intel(R) HD Graphics 3000
State flags: 00000005

Display device 1:
Device name: \\.\DISPLAY2
Device string: Intel(R) HD Graphics 3000
State flags: 08000000

Display device 2:
Device name: \\.\DISPLAY3
Device string: NVIDIA NVS 4200M
State flags: 00000000

Display device 3:
Device name: \\.\DISPLAY4
Device string: NVIDIA NVS 4200M
State flags: 00000000