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Re: Magic is too cumbersome...
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:21 am
by Halk
Mychaelh wrote:Halk wrote:I remember the EoTB system well enough. You what happens after you click on that fireball? You can click on the next one once the cooldown is finished. Easier than LoG.
At least you had only these two fireballs and then had to rest to get new ones. Imagine how easy EoB would have been without the need for rest.
Well, remember that EotB did limit your resources in that way as opposed to having mana or stamina. The AD&D system requires resting. Imagine how easy xxxx game would be with infinite resources?
Re: Magic is too cumbersome...
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:33 am
by daggah
Mychaelh wrote:Halk wrote:I remember the EoTB system well enough. You what happens after you click on that fireball? You can click on the next one once the cooldown is finished. Easier than LoG.
But you had only these two fireballs and then had to rest to get new ones. Imagine how easy EoB would have been without the need for rest.
You can just as easily rest in Grimrock to get your energy back. In fact, I think I rest more often in Grimrock than I used to in EotB2, simply because Grimrock has enemies that hit way harder (when your characters have similar HP pools as well.)
Re: Magic is too cumbersome...
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:34 am
by sirspikey
jfunk wrote:I really feel like the complaints are missing the point. You're dismissing it as bad UI when it's just part of the style. YES, it requires physical dexterity on the player's part, that's part of the entire decision to make this style of game instead of turn based. If it was "easier" to cast, they'd just have to nerf casting power. Twitch reflexes are simply part of the design decision here, just like they are in action games or FPS games. That's what separates these games from turn based combat RPGs.
I'm a turn based fan myself. I think the "Wizardry system" is my favorite over the years (give all commands up front, then watch one round play out). But that's not what this game is about. This is a DM/EoB style game and this is how they're played. Your ability to physically keep up with the pace of real time combat is part of the game, just like with other action based games.
It's OK if you don't prefer this style and would rather it be different, but it's not broken. It's working as intended. It may not be your cup of tea, but it's working exactly like it's supposed to.
No I'm not missing the point I just don't find it very funny or rewarding...
Re: Magic is too cumbersome...
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:34 am
by Mychaelh
Halk wrote: Well, remember that EotB did limit your resources in that way as opposed to having mana or stamina. The AD&D system requires resting.
Exactly. And that's why it was not as good as DM anymore.
EoB was created because of DM stole the show from SSI's Gold Box AD&D series (which had turn based combat on a tactical iso-grid over-head view. EoB was 'just' AD&D pressed in a real-time 3d corset.
DM was especially designed for 3d in all it's aspects and had the better concepts from the beginning.
Re: Magic is too cumbersome...
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:39 am
by Halk
Mychaelh wrote:Halk wrote: Well, remember that EotB did limit your resources in that way as opposed to having mana or stamina. The AD&D system requires resting.
Exactly. And that's why it was not as good as DM anymore. EoB was created because of DM stole the show from SSI's Gold Box AD&D series. It was AD&D pressed in a real-time 3d corset. DM was especially designed for this and had the better concepts from the beginning.
EotB loses against DM every time. How did FTL produce a game that was so polished, so deep, so good, so engulfing. How did they get the game balanced so well without a single patch. Frankly I can't explain why they've done so well. The only other game I can think of that nailed it so well was Elite.
But in DM you had limited resources, mana was finite, you had to wait or sleep to get it back and in doing so you used water and food.
Re: Magic is too cumbersome...
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:49 am
by Mychaelh
Halk wrote:EotB loses against DM every time.
...because DM has this rune-magic system designed for real-time, which depends on your own abilities and not the RNG.
And that's the whole basic point of the discussion.
Re: Magic is too cumbersome...
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:28 am
by Fred
I like the rune method of magic casting. What I would like to see is the ability to precast. Yes you can precast before a battle, but I'm talking about is during a battle. At present when you attack your magic interface is locked out until its your turn again. I would like to see that for a mage, even though its greyed out you can still punch in the runes ready for when your attack unlocks (either that or the last spell you cast still stays highlighted).
Re: Magic is too cumbersome...
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:24 am
by Fonzman
This game is simply the opposite of an mmo! you SHOULD not be able to script/prepare for a battle, and later sit back and watch the show with occasional skill-execution .. you have to do and time every click yourself!
as convenient as it was in EotB3, the "all attack" button diminished the fun .. It would be the same in LoG, if features like precasting would be possible.
Re: Magic is too cumbersome...
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:30 am
by Halk
Fonzman wrote:This game is simply the opposite of an mmo! you SHOULD not be able to script/prepare for a battle, and later sit back and watch the show with occasional skill-execution .. you have to do and time every click yourself!
as convenient as it was in EotB3, the "all attack" button diminished the fun .. It would be the same in LoG, if features like precasting would be possible.
Nothing in this game should be done because it's the opposite of an MMO. Decision on game mechanics, UI etc should be made because it leads to good gameplay. Additionally there's absolutely no enjoyment in fighting with a mouse or keyboard, the UI should be something we don't think about while playing, we just get on with things.
Re: Magic is too cumbersome...
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:46 am
by PiIsExactly3
I think we should take it even further. Completely new combat for Fighters. There's a spider coming at you, get ready!
First click on your fighter to open up his inventory. Then click on his scabbard. Once you have done so select "unsheathe" from the menu. Close the inventory screen. Click on the drawn sword icon. Choose swing. Ok, you did some damage so you're almost done!
Open your inventory, click your rag. Choose "wipe blood". Can't let your sword rust now can you! Click your sword. Click "sheathe".
Whew!
Now you're ready to attack again!
Now that takes skill!