Things the devs didn't think through

[DJK]

I did say "most" and besides by nature combat in a game like this is "gimped" .. you can backtrack to a room to dance in, you can use any "gate" to exploit etc... it's very hard to make combat difficult in a game like this and that's just the genre... they did try to at least make some improvements, creatures who can attack sideways, slimes who can attack through grates etc... yes it's all still abusable but it's pretty much the best you can do, save giving the mobs a way to open doors, which in all honesty they should have done for the more "humanoid" creatures... a troll or spider shouldn't be able to open a door, but a ogre or those endgame magic creatures (whatever their name is, they use pretty much all spells) should.

[gambit37]

a troll or spider shouldn't be able to open a door, but a ogre or those endgame magic creatures (whatever their name is, they use pretty much all spells) should.

But they do open doors.... perhaps you just never witnessed it?

[DJK]

They do ? Nope, I finished the game and indeed never saw em doing so

[Crise]

They do ? Nope, I finished the game and indeed never saw em doing so

I have not seen ogers opening doors but the grimwhatever's definitely do open doors.

[Crash]

slimes who can attack through grates etc... yes it's all still abusable but it's pretty much the best you can do, save giving the mobs a way to open doors, which in all honesty they should have done for the more "humanoid" creatures...

I think it is annoying that slimes can attack through grates, but arrows/crossbows cannot. Regarding the doors, I feel that some monsters should be able to open doors, close doors when you launch a fireball, and chase you up the stairs if you are stair dancing, but these would all have to be optional features on a settings screen. The other option I would like to have seen, is that the pull chains for doors have the possibility of breaking, leaving the door open

Back to intended topic, the skills and levels, if I recall, in classic games like Dungeon Master, it would have been extremely difficult to come anywhere near Archmaster levels without absurd amounts of grinding. I hope that an LoG expansion or sequel ends up like Chaos Strikes back, where characters from the first LoG dungeon can be imported into the next to allow further character growth. Maybe this will continue through several dungeons. At some point it would be necessary to start over with brand new characters, maybe for a full fledged sequel or a change of setting. I'm rather certain that the developers did think through a long term plan during the development of this game, in fact I would be glad to know that the highest levels can't be reached, as this would suggest that was by design.

[Arctor]

There are several traits that nobody will ever get.

The proverbial "So what?" seems fitting here. Or quoting from the last page of any ColecoVision game manual - that bit about the "fun of discovery." If anything, you should take an interest in these "traits that nobody will ever get" and experience them for yourself. Might be truly rewarding. But no one is making any promises. Just try to remember that this game is from a different time, before World of Warcraft.

[seebs]

There are several traits that nobody will ever get.

The proverbial "So what?" seems fitting here. Or quoting from the last page of any ColecoVision game manual - that bit about the "fun of discovery." If anything, you should take an interest in these "traits that nobody will ever get" and experience them for yourself. Might be truly rewarding. But no one is making any promises. Just try to remember that this game is from a different time, before World of Warcraft.

It wouldn't be a bad thing if they learned some of the lessons that have been learned since WoW, though.

There's not a lot of surprise to which traits are rewarding or not-rewarding. The reason nobody will get them is usually that we can think through what they mean and why, and conclude that they're not even close to the value of the others.

... Although now I am sort of wondering whether someday I will meet someone who DID take Staff Defense to a non-trivial level and doesn't regret it.

[evilskillit]

Well people will find enjoyment in things if they want to. Someone with a lot of imagination might get a kick out of maxing out athletics instead of axes.

Also after you've beaten the game a few times the challenge of taking a play through and only maxing out the skills that you normally wouldn't use could be interesting. Win only maxing out armor, athletics, dodge, spellcraft and staff defense.

[seebs]

Well people will find enjoyment in things if they want to. Someone with a lot of imagination might get a kick out of maxing out athletics instead of axes.

True. It's just frustrating that the things that look really appealing at low levels are often not only not useful, but actually prevent you from getting the really good stuff near endgame.

[affa]

I did say "most" and besides by nature combat in a game like this is "gimped" .. you can backtrack to a room to dance in, you can use any "gate" to exploit etc... it's very hard to make combat difficult in a game like this and that's just the genre... they did try to at least make some improvements, creatures who can attack sideways, slimes who can attack through grates etc... yes it's all still abusable but it's pretty much the best you can do, save giving the mobs a way to open doors, which in all honesty they should have done for the more "humanoid" creatures... a troll or spider shouldn't be able to open a door, but a ogre or those endgame magic creatures (whatever their name is, they use pretty much all spells) should.

which is why i'd LOVE to see a 'turn based combat' mod in which going next to a monster initiates combat old school Bard's Tale/Wizardry style way. Would obviously require a significant mod (modified skills, etc) but... a level editor/mod that did that would be just tremendous. too bad likelihood approaches nil.