Grimrock

Wurmwood wrote:I have been there too, but when I was in that chapter of my life playing a computer game was not on my list of priorities. I am by no means trying to insult you, I am just saying that when people are struggling to pay the bills, getting their hands on a game should be the least of their worries. I am a full time student myself, working on the last part of my B.A. for nursing, and money is tight, but I willingly made the sacrifice to buy the game in lieu of my monthly entertainment shenanigans.

Who here didn't? I'm in the same situation, that is exactly why I absolutely had to try before a buy.

I agree that a demo should be made available. It doesn't even have to be a demo of content that's actually in the game. This engine is perfectly suited for a demo-specific couple of floors.

I seriously doubt the OP even checked if there's a demo available before downloading that torrent. And even if it did exist, and he had been given the choise to download the demo or the full version, he'd just download the full one - it's better for evaluation anyway.

The devs opted to go with the non-drm route. It was clear to everyone that piracy would be rampant.

It's good that some pirates (likely those who had played DM or EOB back in the day) choose to support the devs. But claiming that a demo would reduce piracy.. That's just silly. It may increase other sales, but if getting the full version is as easy (or in this case, easier, as who'd seed the demo torrent?) as the demo, hardly anyone will grab the demo.

Are you so sure Sol? The OP says differently.

As far as I'm concerned I don't advocate piracy, but if this game wasn't as appealing a genre to me as it is I'd not have bothered - however if there was a demo that might have gotten me hooked. The point of this thread is to suggest a demo would help sales. The piracy is a bit of a red herring.

Yeah I steal items to make sure that I like them. Then I take them back to the store and buy them. And if I don't really like them i'll just keep them anyways. Screw everyone who doesn't give me exactly what I want. I deserve stuff for free because I'm special.

Oh yeah and just wanted to say. There are reviews of the game and youtube videos. Its a $12 indie game. F'in pirates are cancer.

Wurmwood wrote:I have been there too, but when I was in that chapter of my life playing a computer game was not on my list of priorities. I am by no means trying to insult you, I am just saying that when people are struggling to pay the bills, getting their hands on a game should be the least of their worries. I am a full time student myself, working on the last part of my B.A. for nursing, and money is tight, but I willingly made the sacrifice to buy the game in lieu of my monthly entertainment shenanigans.

You misunderstand. It was not a situation where I had to "struggle to pay the bills". It was just that from the stuff I had left over, 15 bucks would be a pretty significant part.

Mr_Ditters wrote:Yeah I steal items to make sure that I like them. Then I take them back to the store and buy them. And if I don't really like them i'll just keep them anyways. Screw everyone who doesn't give me exactly what I want. I deserve stuff for free because I'm special.

Oh yeah and just wanted to say. There are reviews of the game and youtube videos. Its a $12 indie game. F'in pirates are cancer.

This argument is patently ridiculous and has no place in the Internet marketplace. It's exactly these kinds of arguments that continually hold back this industry from addressing the real issues.

Halk wrote:Are you so sure Sol? The OP says differently.

The OP said he heard of the game for the first time when it appeared on a torrent site. LoG has had so much publicity that if he visited any of the sites that might offer a demo, he would have heard of it.

Piracy and demos simply use different channels, and sadly the warez has much better established ones. Demo would not matter one iota to piracy, BUT might increase sales otherwise.

Whether to make a demo or not is mainly a resource issue - would the resources be better used to make official modding tools, for instance?

Sol_HSA wrote:

Halk wrote:Are you so sure Sol? The OP says differently.

The OP said he heard of the game for the first time when it appeared on a torrent site. LoG has had so much publicity that if he visited any of the sites that might offer a demo, he would have heard of it.

Piracy and demos simply use different channels, and sadly the warez has much better established ones. Demo would not matter one iota to piracy, BUT might increase sales otherwise.

Whether to make a demo or not is mainly a resource issue - would the resources be better used to make official modding tools, for instance?

I think they'd be better used to make a demo, I think that'd result in more sales than modding tools. Of course I'd rather have modding tools.

The OPs comments about leaning about the game from torrent sites are probably a testament to the lack of thunder on Steam for it. More money would have been made if Steam had a demo up the week before release and some publicity about it. Instead the game snuck out - although despite that it's still a success.

I only heard about it by reading a thread on a forum about Skyrim and someone had mentioned this game, so I googled it. I'm in a position where I don't give a snot about the £8.50 it cost so I bought it on impulse. I'd imagine there's an awful lot of people like me that could have bought the game if they knew about it.

The trailer should have been more than enough to convince you. Morally what you did was wrong even if it all worked out dandy in the end. The deep, deep question is, does that make what you did still bad? I would say yes.

If you shoplifted a product, even if it cost nothing to make and stock, and then went back to the store and paid for it, rather than be happy there's a good chance of them turning you in to the police. The fact that on your internet your actions appear to have no consequences and you won't get caught doesn't make what you did right.

Let's put out a different question: If you could cheat on your spouse with no consequences and no chance of being caught, would your actions still be morally wrong? By participating in a capitalist economy you have signed an unwritten contract to honor the value of money and goods and services, you expect your hard work at your job to be honored with a certain amount of money and you expect that money to be worth whatever it is worth. Intellectual property has a worth, and to not pay for it is a pretty clear-cut breaking of that contract.

No, you're not going to get arrested or punished, but you have still done something wrong and you should acknowledge that. This is what society, and the future online society must be built on.