Grimrock

jontycampbell wrote:

Darklord wrote:Of course the easiest way to play DM is using one of these clones, they are designed to run on WIndows etc.

http://www.dungeon-master.com/index.htm

The Amiga version is better though if you can wrap your head around the emulation.

Daniel.

Brilliant! thanks.

Watch out though. With the exception of CSBWin (which is only Chaos Strikes Back, the MUCH HARDER sequel that assumes you know everything there is to know about the game already and really throws you in the deep end at the start) none of those are actual ports just remakes (in terms of code) from scratch. So they're not entirely faithful to the original in terms of how the game really works under the hood. The gameplay is subtly different in all of them. Only CSBWin is ported from the disassembled Atari ST binaries. You should have no problem getting DOSBox to run on Windows 7.

Darklord wrote:

Goffmog wrote:Of course the actual best version was on the Atari ST, it ran faster and came on only one disk!

No no the Amiga version was the best! It had several improvements over the ST version which make it a better game. Here's a comparison,

http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/247

Daniel.

My ST copy definitely had stereo sound. In fact there was a big yellow label on the front of the box proudly boasting about it. Would have been great if we ever had a stereo TV Ok, you couldn't drink straight from the fountain, or hear the warcry but like it says on that page, we had lockpicks - I'm not sure they could actually pick any of the locks in the game though! bit like the dragonspit and the cursed armour, added to the mystery of the game because they weren't fully implemented

ST didn't have monster steps either did it? It's much more atmospheric when you can hear monsters moving about in the distance!

One other big improvement on the Amiga is you can click on walls to knock on them, which allows you to check for illusionary walls, in the ST version you had to walk into them which means you take damage!

Daniel.

Darklord wrote:ST didn't have monster steps either did it? It's much more atmospheric when you can hear monsters moving about in the distance!

One other big improvement on the Amiga is you can click on walls to knock on them, which allows you to check for illusionary walls, in the ST version you had to walk into them which means you take damage!

Daniel.

You could use the see through walls spell

Not hearing the monster steps meant you had no idea what might be around the next corner. For me the atmosphere of the game had everything to do with how easy it was to get lost, having to manage food and water to survive, and not knowing what was coming around the next corner. The main different I notice when I play both versions though is the speed. The ST version is definitely a little bit faster overall.

But I don't really think either version is superior, I just know which one is the faithfull experience for me and that's the original ST version - The Amiga versions of games always had more bells & whistles, just because they had dedicated bells & whistles hardware to play with, and most games were better on the Amiga

Darklord wrote:in the ST version you had to walk into them which means you take damage!

That feels stupid. As if the party would purposely run themselves into a wall

Thels wrote:

Darklord wrote:in the ST version you had to walk into them which means you take damage!

That feels stupid. As if the party would purposely run themselves into a wall

Aye it's one of the reasons I prefer the Amiga version, being able to knock on the wall with a simple click makes a lot of sense.

Daniel.

Goffmog wrote: The ST version is definitely a little bit faster overall.

Heh when I play the Amiga version on an emulator I enable 2mb of Fast RAM it runs much nicer!

Goffmog wrote:But I don't really think either version is superior, I just know which one is the faithfull experience for me and that's the original ST version

Well if not for the original none of the others would have been made, so we have a lot to be greatfull for to the ST DM! And of course without DM we wouldn't ever of had LoG either!

Daniel.

Darklord wrote:

Thels wrote:

Darklord wrote:in the ST version you had to walk into them which means you take damage!

That feels stupid. As if the party would purposely run themselves into a wall

Aye it's one of the reasons I prefer the Amiga version, being able to knock on the wall with a simple click makes a lot of sense.

Daniel.

Consider this though, once you have that mechanic in the game, it's a lot easier to find false walls, and requires no investment from the player either in risking damage or in casting spells, and so much more tempting for the developer to rely on false walls for puzzles. I loved the fact that they were very rare in DM (although overused in CSB) and the dungeon design kind of hinted that they were there, in most cases. The very first "when is rock not rock?" moment is very cool. I liked to imagine that you couldn't find a false wall just by touch, that you had to purposefully walk through it, otherwise it wouldn't yield. If it wasn't an actual false wall you'd smack your head on it - kind of like Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and the leap from the lion's head I think there was as much going on in my imagination when I played DM as there was on screen. Being 8 or 9 years old probably helped amplify the awe factor too.

Illusionary wall/ an alternative to walking against walls is to put/throw things forward and see if they disappear.

Goffmog wrote:
Watch out though. With the exception of CSBWin (which is only Chaos Strikes Back, the MUCH HARDER sequel that assumes you know everything there is to know about the game already and really throws you in the deep end at the start) none of those are actual ports just remakes (in terms of code) from scratch. So they're not entirely faithful to the original in terms of how the game really works under the hood. The gameplay is subtly different in all of them. Only CSBWin is ported from the disassembled Atari ST binaries. You should have no problem getting DOSBox to run on Windows 7.

I love the Dos Box version because it supports save states