The "Walking Dead" Party

[Azel]

I don't think Disaster's comment about spamming Invisibility was meant to be an "arbitrary" declaration of "cheese" against anyone who uses the spell. If you read it within the context of the discussion it was more the result of trying to reason with themell's silly logic. In one post themell challenges the logic of having 2 casters based on the notion that "magic is weak" but then quickly after that he declares that using magic (Invisibility) will guarantee you an easy kill in the game. Interestingly, if we take themell's advice and use Invisibility then we definitely do not need to take his initial advice and rely on 4 Lizards for max resists since it would only really apply to about 3 mob's in the game. themell is just playing "rock, paper, scissors" with everyone's posts (much like GJIG did), hence the blatant self-defeat and contradictions.

If you attempt to reply directly to that nonsense you'll end up looking like you're making arbitrary statements (as in Disaster's case). My advice... just ignore some of the silliness like themell/GJIG to avoid the pitfalls of following around an illogical bouncing ball

[themell]

I don't think Disaster's comment about spamming Invisibility was meant to be an "arbitrary" declaration of "cheese" against anyone who uses the spell. If you read it within the context of the discussion it was more the result of trying to reason with themell's silly logic. In one post themell challenges the logic of having 2 casters based on the notion that "magic is weak" but then quickly after that he declares that using magic (Invisibility) will guarantee you an easy kill in the game. Interestingly, if we take themell's advice and use Invisibility then we definitely do not need to take his initial advice and rely on 4 Lizards for max resists since it would only really apply to about 3 mob's in the game. themell is just playing "rock, paper, scissors" with everyone's posts (much like GJIG did), hence the blatant self-defeat and contradictions.

If you attempt to reply directly to that nonsense you'll end up looking like you're making arbitrary statements (as in Disaster's case). My advice... just ignore some of the silliness like themell/GJIG to avoid the pitfalls of following around an illogical bouncing ball

magic is weak. There is no reason why anyone should get two magic casters

Notice how I labeled my magic caster as a "ranged utility magic user". He doesn't do damage. The only thing he does is cast invisibility, forcefield, and light. Sometimes he cast meteor, but that's rare. In reality, you can get away with 5 concentration, 3 air magic, and 5 alchemy on the magic user. That frees up 5 points for the light weapon user to max out critical and get another 2 points in accuracy. One melee attack already does as much as a magic attack, so there's no point in using magic. And if you crit with the melee attack, you'll do several hundred points of damage. Backstabs do even more damage.

magic attacks are strong in the beginning of the game, but it's weak in the mid and late game

[Azel]

Not necessary to have 2 magic casters, as stated earlier in this thread one can replace the second caster with pretty much anything you want. You are spending too much time quote humping and not enough time reading. I choose to have 1 caster dedicated to damage (meteor) and the other Utility Invisibility, etc). Is it necessary? Of course not. Someone beat the game with 4 rogues, another with a single Throwing Barbarian, and you... with the gimped 4 Lizard crew (allegedly). Nothing is necessary, it's a single player game.

[Vardis]

I used 3 alchemists, finished with 40K steps, so 8 extra stat potions per. Maybe 8-8-7, as I might not have found a 3rd crystal by the first 4500. Gave the 23 stat potions as dex potions to my dual wielding alchemist in the front. Even playing on hard, single use crystals, ironman, it's not that difficult (except maybe on a first run through). So I didn't need the vitality, didn't need the willpower, and the stat bonus to damage is not affected by dual wielding, so it's best put on someone using dex weapons with the faster attacks, which have a nice synergy with providing both evasion and accuracy. My ratling finshed with weapons doing 42-100 (3.5) and 39-91 (2.8), 60 evasion, 123 accuracy (with no points in it), and still had 90 protection. Did the extra 7 dex really matter? No. But that combined with the many extra other potions made that an easy run.

I had one lizardman, and I don't recall any situation where he survived and the rest of my party died, and I had him in the back row at that. I suppose resists are nice and all, but other than resist poison on my front line guys in a couple of areas (for which I had a +50 bracer for each), I don't remember elemental attacks being that big of a deal. I mean the point of building a party isn't to make them so tanky that I can go off and make a sandwich and come back to them still alive, is it? I personally want to kill stuff faster and get on with the game. So instead of going heavy resist, maybe just don't stand in the fire.

[Azel]

Brilliant! Thanks for the response, Vardis. Almost makes me wanna give up my cheese eating farmer... almost

[Azel]

Wanted to post an update. I beat the game with this party last week and absolutely loved every minute of it. For me personally, this was the best group make-up for my play style. I've tried Warrior/Knight up front backed by Rogue dual-wielding, missiles, etc... and while the game is fun with pretty much anything (even a solo Farmer), this particular group gave me the utmost enjoyment for a number of reasons:

1) This party can dominate the entire game using pure ranged attacks if you so choose, and they will be highly effective doing so. The front-line Throwing Mino Barb is a proven power-house, while you use Frost Bolt (freeze) and Meteor from the casters in the back. Which leaves the lone front-line Heavy Weapons Mino not doing much... but since you have 2 Alchemists the backup weapon for the Heavy Weapons user is simply, lots of Bombs. Fire/Lightning were my favorite; alternating between the 2 as needed to do the most damage depending on the target. Thus making a 4-party "ranged" killing machine.

2) When ranged play got too monotonous, standard Tank-style was a breeze. Even with the Thrower Barb wearing Light Armor the entire game, using Frost spells/bombs to freeze enemies while having a huge supply of Heal potions (thanks to dual Alchemists), made pure face-tanking a reality.

3) The Farmer was the All Start MVP of this group. I pharmed for exp for the entire group in the Herder's Den very early on (pretty much rushed to it once past Twigroot Forest). My Farmer hit level 20 in the Herder's Den (and the rest of my group about level 14) by the time I left. With the Farmer so strong (and he was Ratling so the extra Attributes coming from Mutation worked wonders) that sometimes I could get away with playing "lazy." Meaning, I could allow my group to get surrounded and the only person that would take the worst of it was the Lizard Alchemist (pure caster's always do). I just had to keep him alive (usually by freezing whichever enemy was on his side) and I could decimate enemies despite being attacked on all 4 sides.

4) I would literally One-Shot those Fire Elementals (you know, the super fast flyers that explode in to your face) with the Farmer's Dispel. The Lizard caster also had Dispel, which helped when dealing with the Air Elementals. I really enjoyed being able to kill every single Fire Elemental before they suicide bombed the group. It not only saves you from limb injury, but also gets those extra Experience Points that you would otherwise lose.

5) Boss battles were a breeze. I defeated the Lindworm on Round 3 using only 1 Rage Potion (it can be done on Round 2 if you use more Rage Potions for both the Throwing Barb and Heavy Weapons Mino). I only used 1 rage Potion on the Heavy Weapons Mino during Round 3, cause I got surrounded by nasties. The Trickster fell in no time at all, and the Island Master was taken down by: the Thrower Barb, backed with the Lizard's Meteor Storm, and the Farmer's Lighting Bolt. The Heavy Weapons Mino didn't attack the Island Master once; he just helped absorb a few attacks.

The key for me here was the versatility. I could switch up my style of play to pretty much anything (even enjoying full caster/utility battles) without suffering any real penalties. More importantly, I could test out play theories (like strong tanking or pure magic battles) and watch them succeed as though I had built a group specific to that style of play (ie, this group could mimic dual front-line Knights, or a party of 4 high DPS ranged attackers). The ability to mimic virtually any playstyle seemed to yield the best possible results without having to literally start a new game just to try a different build.

Well that's my feedback; again, this is not for everyone and there are certainly other rewarding avenues to take.

In closing, here was my final party:

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Mino Barb - Level 15

Primary weapons: Shuriken (Main Hand), Throwing Axes (Off Hand)
Armor: Light Armor - Mirror Set with Knuckles of Steel
Traits: Headhunter, Aggressive

Skills:
5 Throwing
4 Accuracy
2 Critical
2 Armor
3 Dodge


Mino Alchemist - Level 16

Primary weapon: Scythe
Armor: Heavy Armor - Meteor Set
Traits: Martial Training, Aggressive

Skills:
5 Heavy Weapons
5 Critical
4 Armor
3 Accuracy
3 Dodge


Lizard Alchemist - Level 16

Role: Caster
Armor: Archmage Set
Traits: Endure Elements, Fast Metabolism

Skills:
5 Fire Magic
4 Water Magic
3 Air Magic
3 Concentration
1 Earth magic


Ratling Farmer - Level 20

Role: Potion Maker, Support Caster
Armor: Crystal Set
Traits: Mutation, Strong Mind

Skills:
5 Alchemy
5 Air
5 Water
3 Concentration
1 Earth

Final Base Attributes (increased via Mutation and eating Cheese):
15 Str
18 Dex
23 Vitality
21 Willpower

***************************

Great game!

[sarsharek]

Magic is by no means weak. What is weak is the wizard class. I used a battle mage in the front row. 4 points into armor, 5 in fire, 3 air, 5 concentration. gave him both the tombs i found and alot of willpower potions from the alchemist. he could tank awesome with his shield spell up and his meteor spell blew everything away. he also had about 480 energy and plenty of potions from the alchemist. Put him in the front row and no need for a wizard. he tanks great and does a ton of damage.

[Azel]

Magic is by no means weak. What is weak is the wizard class. I used a battle mage in the front row. 4 points into armor, 5 in fire, 3 air, 5 concentration. gave him both the tombs i found and alot of willpower potions from the alchemist. he could tank awesome with his shield spell up and his meteor spell blew everything away. he also had about 480 energy and plenty of potions from the alchemist. Put him in the front row and no need for a wizard. he tanks great and does a ton of damage.

Couldn't agree more. Before I beat the game with this specific Party, I had read across multiple forums that magic is weak in the end-game. So naturally with my Party consisting of 2 back-row mages (one Alchemist, one Farmer) I kept waiting for the end-game to bring out my groups inner "gimpness" ... but it never happened. Every scenario was made so easy thanks to having every major magic spell at my disposal, and I beat the final 3 bosses (dragon, tricksters, island master) using nothing but spells as my primary strategy; the battles were quick and easy.

I haven't figured out what part of the end-game was supposed to render magic weak; maybe if you put the game Difficulty on hard?

I will say this, sarsharek, your the first poster that made me wanna try a Battle Mage. I was convinced they were ineffective but your description sounds badass. Although, how did you handle those pesky Elementals without Dispel?

[sarsharek]

It was my second play through and I wanted to make a good party, in my first I did not make my guy's right and struggled so much i gave up on the island master and figured id get him with my second group. (didnt help i used up all my bombs and crystals for the heck of it on the castle boss.)

I was unsure when i started if i made the right decision using the battle mage instead of either a wizard or no caster. But he deffinetly more then held his own in the begining and by the end he was the one killing almost everything. I read alot about them on the forums and decided to put him in the front row, using 4 points for heavy armor. Still had enough left to max concentration, fire (wich i had him start with) and put the 3 into air for meteor spell.

I designated him my tomb guy and had my alchemist make him a ton of willpower potions. He was an absolute beast to be honest and he does completely make the wizard useless. you get like what 50 more energy or maybe like 80 cause of the wizard armor set but thats the only benefit. with the battle mage in the begining he just cast his fire shock spell as the knight swung his heavy and that was that, room for a backrow rogue and no weakling in the back that dies everytime you get hit by a fireball.

When I created him i put 5 willpower 5 vitality. I think the biggest mistake with a battle mage would be trying to have him use a weapon skill. just designate him you'r tomb guy so he can get meteor, heavy armor and max concentration and he's a beast. point in concentration for shield right off. I favored armor early and while in the begining he prolly had the most trouble staying alive this didnt last all that long and wasnt really that bad anyway.

island master went down in less then a minute to the group of lizardmen.

edit - oh yeah you'r question, haha. This might be a spoiler and i cant see how to make the text black so dont read if it's an issue.




I got the staff with dispell ability just before i encountered them. never even had to use the dagger.