Grimrock

jfunk wrote:While I certainly don't care if they offer a "max hp" checkbox in the option for those that want it, being annoying to people with OCD is hardly grounds for calling the design "faulty".

seebs wrote: I don't think it's a matter of OCD. I do sort of feel that purely random things with such long-lasting effects undermine the idea of a game that is about strategic play.

jfunk wrote:

seebs wrote: I don't think it's a matter of OCD. I do sort of feel that purely random things with such long-lasting effects undermine the idea of a game that is about strategic play.

I disagree in that I feel it makes the characters unique and more interesting. If you happen to roll really well every time through the life of one particular minotaur, he could stand out above the others as that "really tough sob I had one time".

I LIKE not being able to control every minute detail of what happens. It feels less like playing a spreadsheet that way.

I mean, you could apply the OPs same logic to say that missing should be eliminated from the game. My character should do exactly how much damage he's "designed" to do with every single swing. Balance the monster health accordingly. No hit/miss, just damage done and damage mitigated stats for everything.

A little bit of random does not equal bad. 100% predictable is boring.

If I know exactly what the results of every choice will be every time, why bother playing at all?

Smaug wrote:
The vitality system is flawed and its bad game design. While many things in gaming have evolved to a negative, overcoming this mechanic was actually something from the positive side: Ensuring that the choice to raise VIT when the player has already progressed to the lategame is still a choice that will offer enough benefits thus making it a valid choice. Next to that, removing random character generation factors helps to design the game content, which is always good for someone balancing a game, and additionally it removes the odds of a player getting stuck, because of terrible bad luck.... ...computer RNGs can do funny things, and there will be people out there who roll extremely bad. The player experience will suffer but the player does not understand why, as it is a degenerating process and not a "good choice/bad choice" situation with a learning effect.

Yes, there is no bible for making games. And yes, you are entitled to vote for the oldschool VIT system, and defend it like a maniac (cause thats the impression you make here). If you like shit, you like shit. Its okay. Doesnt mean you have to convinve other people that shit is good.

seebs wrote:My division is between temporary and permanent randomness. Imagine that, instead of rolling for misses or hits, the game determined, at character creation, a sequence of ten rolls that would then be used in rotation throughout the life of the character. Low rolls on those mean that character will always miss a lot; high rolls mean that character will always hit a lot.

That sort of gets away from the fun kind of random and more into the "whoops, got unlucky, hosed now" kind of random.

FWIW, it's pretty easy to do health/energy mods retroactively if the modifiers are fixed. If every 2 points of vitality adds one health per level, say, then you can always do the calculation on the fly as you modify the stats. If they do something fancier, like changing the range of die rolls, then it's not as obvious what it should do. Interesting that training skills that give vitality appears to affect health, though.