Grimrock

Jgwman wrote:If you guys want to make it perfect, that's great. But the game has been out two years, and isn't exactly TES tiers of popularity.

That has its advantages.

As for the game's age... I'm in no rush against a shelf-life. I've been dabbling in UA mods as well, and there are Fallout 2 mods still being produced to this day.

I'm all for perfecting it; but I do see it both ways. We did as much with the ORRR2, and eventually had to lock it, test it and release it. My own room was victim of severe feature amputation... losing the undead dwarves, the main bosses [custom ghost and warden encounters], and all of the Foundry weapon-crafting elements due to time constraints, and lack of tools*.
[There were Arx Fatalis style weapon molds, and anvils to hammer the castings... The Auto-smith was intended as the second best option for parties that lacked the skill.]

*[grimFBX was graciously re-worked at the tail end of ORRR2's development, and that was the only reason the auto-smith's animations could be imported into the mod].
Thanks to John's programming work and Diarmuids 3d-texturing and scripting help.

I asked about the project because I thought the rooms additions were almost done when I joined. I don't want to rush but if there are things we can do now to progress the project even without all the last rooms, maybe we could share the tasks and start working on it. I am available to do some of it.

That's the thing: when I offered to help guide the project to completion around March, since John was gone, I also thought new rooms were almost done being implemented. Due to a combination of people being busy and adding new stuff, we're not a whole lot farther than we were then.

Basically, how big the project ends up being is entirely up to you guys. I'm not particularly worried about when the project actually gets released, but I think we have to set actual deadlines/goals if we want to ever release it (which I tried to do in March, but they generally ended up going unnoticed). When you're talking about Fallout 2 mods still being made, you have to consider: how many people are actually playing them? If there are still a significant number, why? Because the series is now wildly popular? Because Fallout 2 is/was available for free on GoG?

I personally think, once Isaac's room is added, we have a suitable amount of content after we clean up the remaining empty areas. If you guys disagree, I believe Andak is really the only one that's offered to do any more (Isaac has a very busy schedule, minmay already added more and said he was done with new content, and few others frequent the thread IIRC), in which case you should decide what you want to add, exactly how much, and when, so it gets added.

Then, we can finally get to prepping the mod for release. I wrote a fairly generic tune we can use for an intro cinematic, and we'll need art or something similar for a basic intro/outro. Additionally, we need to fix any rooms with issues remaining. I think minmay's argument that over half of the rooms aren't fully functional may be a slight exaggeration, but there's definitely some with fairly major issues, and we still need to do loot rebalancing. I'm happy to help with closing the mod out, but you guys that are more dedicated to the project have to make it clear when you're ready for that

Here's the original draft of the story related stuff: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Gws ... ma4GiFAGhU

Jgwman wrote:When you're talking about Fallout 2 mods still being made, you have to consider: how many people are actually playing them? If there are still a significant number, why? Because the series is now wildly popular? Because Fallout 2 is/was available for free on GoG?

Not really. Fans of Fallout, and fans of Bethesda's attempts at Fallout tend to mix like hot oil & water when discussing Fallout IP, and almost anyone who would mod Fallout 2, probably does so that they can play it.. not so Bethesda's FO3&4 fans [typically] can insult it.

The point being that the name's recent popularity from FO3 & 4 likely has no bearing on their choice to mod & bug fix it; it lies in the game's merit, and the niche fan-base. There was one guy who spent years making a cumulative patch that fixed over a thousand bugs; with a secondary patch that optionally enabled locations and NPCs that were unfinished and inaccessible in the game when it shipped, but that were on the CD.

I think it's been similar for the Grimrock series, in that fans are improving it for other fans, but also for themselves; and despite its age or waning popularity. There are even mods still in development for LoG1.
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I personally think, once Isaac's room is added, we have a suitable amount of content after we clean up the remaining empty areas. If you guys disagree, I believe Andak is really the only one that's offered to do any more (Isaac has a very busy schedule, minmay already added more and said he was done with new content, and few others frequent the thread IIRC), in which case you should decide what you want to add, exactly how much, and when, so it gets added.

IRRC we had set the date for the end of December, to try for a New Years release; which we missed, but it spurred on progress from us.

We had a dedicated sub-set of the ORRR2 team that went through it room by room with the fine-toothed comb, and ensured that everything worked; and in the way that the designer intended, whenever possible. In those areas where the designer dropped out, or disappeared, Diarmuid (as it happened), went through the gaps in the map, and made the 'Condemned areas', and the Vault sub-quest as area filler. And it really worked out very well. Though I'm not suggesting we do exactly the same.... something to fill the space would be nice. Has anyone here played Menzobaranzan, or Stone Prophet? They too had a wide overland map with special encounters and NPC hiring. NPCs that would in some cases only travel through certain areas with the party.

*This can work with four member parties, as both of them allowed only four PCs at a time. We have a town, and an Inn... We should be able to work out a means to leave PCs, and have them rejoin [if they will] later in the game. I really liked that ORRR2 pushed the envelope with the Grimrock engine; and I would like for it to continue that in ORRR3. It's always neat when even veteran players can be surprised.

Then, we can finally get to prepping the mod for release. I wrote a fairly generic tune we can use for an intro cinematic, and we'll need art or something similar for a basic intro/outro. Additionally, we need to fix any rooms with issues remaining. I think minmay's argument that over half of the rooms aren't fully functional may be a slight exaggeration, but there's definitely some with fairly major issues, and we still need to do loot rebalancing. I'm happy to help with closing the mod out, but you guys that are more dedicated to the project have to make it clear when you're ready for that

This sounds good to me.

Here's the original draft of the story related stuff: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Gws ... ma4GiFAGhU

It looks like my room might really fit well into this frame, and with the King.

Are Bardwell and the Sage references to Bard's Tale 2?

Isaac wrote:Are Bardwell and the Sage references to Bard's Tale 2?

They aren't, actually, but that's interesting. I can't remember for sure at this point, but I think John had already named the village Bardwell by the time I wrote that plot draft (or maybe I came up with it, I honestly don't know anymore ) So the Bardwell bit very well might be, if John indeed came up with it. I just used the word Sage to be fancy

Jgwman wrote:

Isaac wrote:Are Bardwell and the Sage references to Bard's Tale 2?

They aren't, actually, but that's interesting. I can't remember for sure at this point, but I think John had already named the village Bardwell by the time I wrote that plot draft (or maybe I came up with it, I honestly don't know anymore ) So the Bardwell bit very well might be, if John indeed came up with it. I just used the word Sage to be fancy

The Sage was a big part of Bard'sTale 2.

I have a complete list of classes changes to suggest, the idea still being balance. Any reaction is welcome, if there is none I will implement it in the project sometime this week

Fighter
- Health 60 (+7 per level), Energy 30 (+3 per level)
- Special attacks with melee weapons take half the time to build up and cost 25% less energy.
- Strength +1 per 2 levels, rounded up.
- Dexterity +1 per 2 levels, rounded down.

Barbarian
- Health 80 (+8 per level), Energy 30 (+3 per level)
- Strength +1 per level.

Knight
- Health 70 (+7 per level), Energy 30 (+4 per level)
- Weight of equipped armor is reduced by 50%.
- Evasion bonus of equipped shields is increased by 50%.
- Protection +2 per level.
- Vitality +1 per level.

Rogue
- Health 45 (+5 per level), Energy 40 (+5 per level)
- When dual wielding you suffer only 25% penalty to weapon damage (normally 40%).
- +1% chance per level to score a critical hit with missile or throwing weapons.
- Dexterity +1 per 2 levels, rounded up.
- Strength +1 per 2 levels, rounded down.

Wizard
- Health 35 (+4 per level), Energy 50 (+6 per level)
- You can cast spells with bare hands.
- Willpower +1 per level.

Battle Mage
- Health 50 (+5 per level), Energy 50 (+5 per level)
- Weight of equipped armor is reduced by 50%.
- You can cast spells with bare hands.
- You gain Protection +10 and Resist All +10 when equipped with a magical staff or an orb.
- Willpower +1 per 2 levels, rounded up.
- Vitality +1 per 2 levels, rounded down.

Alchemist
- Health 50 (+6 per level), Energy 50 (+4 per level)
- Herbs in your inventory multiply. The growth rate is determined by the number of steps taken.
- Firearms have 50% less chance to malfunction.
- For each level, you gain +1 to one attibute among dexterity, willpower, vitality or strength in this order.

Farmer
- Health 30 (+5 per level), Energy 30 (+5 per level)
- You receive no skillpoints at first level.
- Instead of slaying monsters you gain experience points by eating food.
- For each level, you gain +1 to one attibute among vitality, strength, dexterity or willpower, in this order.

Looks solid.

Isaac wrote:I hope I'm not the last; there is an awful lot of empty space; and in places where there shouldn't be.

What do you mean by empty space?
Gameplay or vision wise?

zimberzimber wrote:

Isaac wrote:I hope I'm not the last; there is an awful lot of empty space; and in places where there shouldn't be.

What do you mean by empty space?
Gameplay or vision wise?

We have several empty rooms that were never taken by modders (or abandonned, I don't know). When I joined, the plan was to finish the project without thoses empty rooms. By the way, I thought I was not experienced enough to contribute when that happened, and you seem to think the same thing... So why not change your mind now?