Grimrock

...tripplepost...

THOM wrote:T
Concerning loot-dispersion: like many other toppics (like some of the above ones, too) I think at the end someone has to make a final decision. I am quiet sure we cannot discuss out every of These details. It would be good if there will be a suggestion at the end and every modder can tell if it's okay for him having these items in his room.

So far...

In ORRR2 stuff (items, help texts etc) was added to my room without asking and I'm fine with it, I didn't even think of it being in issue as there were many guys really dedicated to balance the mod. I think in the end when we have all rooms implemented some/all guys should play through it and maybe let one or two fix balance (monster/monster level and loot) to their judgement. I think room changing permission in final balance/cleanup should be opt-out instead of opt-in. If someone is against changing anything in their room you can say so and the fixers just have to work around that with by tweking other rooms.

This scaling system for monsters and random enchanted loot generation is exactly what I have done in my mod
But is it not too ambitious for this project? That is a big system to implement and changes the game deeply. I am not sure it will be to the taste of every one here! The import function can also basically be seen as what it is by default; a way to play in god mode. That is not necessary a bad thing, it remains the player choice.

Of course providing scalable content is a good thing too for players who like leveling . In that scenario, the scaling of experience rewards is also very important. Don't forget that gaining one level past level 20 requires 1000 times more points than at level 1.

But a few new alchemy recipes would be welcome, and some tweaks to balance the game, let's keep it simple

AndakRainor wrote:- If no one protests, I think we should add the +20% base damage per skill point to firearms and use dexterity as the base attribute for all of them, then buff the actual items base damage accordingly.

Unfortunately there's no onComputeBaseDamage hook so this can't be implemented cleanly (you can modify the base damage on the FirearmAttackComponent itself, but then the item's description changes when it's equipped, which is bleh). But I don't think it's needed: range, backfire chance, and item skill requirements already make it important to get to firearms 5.
I actually like that firearms have no stat scaling because it's a unique property, but for this mod I don't really care one way or the other.

AndakRainor wrote:- How about buffing the wizard class by replacing its +2 willpower bonus by +1 willpower per level, in the same way the barbarian works? health and energy gains per level would be adapted to this change. It would have synergy with the spell pack willpower bonuses.
- The knight class could perhaps get +1 vitality per level in addition to the protection bonus. They would then work well with the guardian blade.

This sounds fine to me, but don't forget about fighter and battle mage which are just as bad as wizard and knight.
+1 vitality per level is functionally just going to be +5 health per level, guardian blade is a single item that you only get at the very end of the mod. I think a bigger protection bonus for knight, and nerfing barbarian's health per level, would be more interesting.

AndakRainor wrote:- May be help another weak class with a +1 dexterity per level bonus?

Not sure this would work well. Rogue already occupies the niche of having the best damage with dex-based weapons, and giving it this on top of its current bonuses would make it even better than barbarian.

Scaling monsters and loot to the party's starting level is definitely too ambitious. It's not something you can do just by increasing monster level.



edit: Fun fact about firearms: if you give a firearm the "dagger" trait it won't become dual wieldable or anything like that, but it will become able to backstab if you have Critical 3+. In other words, we could buff firearms by making them able to backstab; just add that trait to all of them, and add it to the description of Critical. It's kind of a goofy buff, and treads on light weapons' ground, but it's a possibilty.

What about adding a marginal increase in accuracy and/or critical chance, in lieu of additional damage?
(Available via hidden trait)

minmay wrote:I actually like that firearms have no stat scaling because it's a unique property, but for this mod I don't really care one way or the other.

The goal here is balance, and you can't balance scaling versus non-scaling things. It is a bit exaggerated to say damage calculation is somehow a flavor or play style.

minmay wrote:This sounds fine to me, but don't forget about fighter and battle mage which are just as bad as wizard and knight. +1 vitality per level is functionally just going to be +5 health per level, guardian blade is a single item that you only get at the very end of the mod. I think a bigger protection bonus for knight, and nerfing barbarian's health per level, would be more interesting.

How about something like:
- fighter: +1 strength per 2 levels, rounded down, +1 dexterity per 2 levels, rounded up.
- knight: +1 vitality and +2 protection per level (adapt health per level to this, the goal is just to make guardian blade a little more useful).
- wizard: +1 willpower per level.
- battle mage: +1 vitality per 2 levels, rounded down, +1 willpower per 2 levels, rounded up.
- barbarian: nerf health per level to something reasonable.

Great work all, especially Minmay, thanks for the hard effort you but in.

According to the pivot tracker there are 2 bugs in my room (invisible teleporter misbehaving and a script not checking if a champ is alive and enabled).
Sounds like easy fixes, when the build is available to work with I would like to go in and correct this.

best regards
Skuggasveinn.

Go on, I did not start working on it, I will wait for your upload.

AndakRainor wrote:The goal here is balance, and you can't balance scaling versus non-scaling things. It is a bit exaggerated to say damage calculation is somehow a flavor or play style.

Weapons can still scale in other ways, like how you find better firearms as you progress in the mod. Otherwise it would be impossible to balance weapons with different cooldowns, or dual-wielding with non-dual-wielding, because those scale with stats at different rates too. But as I said I don't care either way in this particular mod, go ahead and add stat scaling to firearms if you think it is an improvement.

AndakRainor wrote:How about something like:
- fighter: +1 strength per 2 levels, rounded down, +1 dexterity per 2 levels, rounded up.
- knight: +1 vitality and +2 protection per level (adapt health per level to this, the goal is just to make guardian blade a little more useful).
- wizard: +1 willpower per level.
- battle mage: +1 vitality per 2 levels, rounded down, +1 willpower per 2 levels, rounded up.
- barbarian: nerf health per level to something reasonable.

This fighter suggestion still leaves rogue in the dust. Maybe rogue actually should get +1 dex per level...strength has the advantage of helping with bear form after all.

Skuggasveinn wrote:According to the pivot tracker there are 2 bugs in my room (invisible teleporter misbehaving and a script not checking if a champ is alive and enabled).

Don't forget the shading on your models.

AndakRainor wrote:Go on, I did not start working on it, I will wait for your upload.

Ok I got the R039 ( That's the latest right ? ) and working on it.

minmay wrote:Don't forget the shading on your models.

I will fix that also yes.

kind regards.
Skuggasveinn.