Grimrock

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:40 pm**

v1.1 is available, only some minor changes apart from the file size reduction (which is down from 215 mb to 80 mb):

- greatly reduced file size by removing unnecessary files from the dat file
- doors of first pressure plate puzzle will now stay open forever after the puzzle was solved, no matter what you do
- second secret room was moved, it's easier to find now (both the button and the room) and the snail will respawn more reliably in case you run out of food for the 'serve the dinner' puzzle
- Malik now explicitly mentions the use of frost bombs in the note that lies in front of the ogre room on level 3
- made the 'four times four' puzzle on level 4 easier by filling one alcove with appropriate items
- put another safety check into the ballista script to prevent any odd crashing issues

@Komag: As you can see I implemented some of your suggestions, thanks for the feedback! I think four alcoves on the table would be confusing unless you had a visual hint that there are four of them. I could of course place dishes/four plates, but that would be too easy and it doesn't fit that much into the mine I think. The solar clock puzzle is not optional, but I hope it's not insanely difficult once you figured out it is a clock.

@flatline: I couldn't figure out why it crashed, there is a lot of time between spawning the entities and accessing them from the script (also tested the ballista a bit more, but couldn't replicate the crash). I simply put in a findEntity check now, so in case something goes horribly wrong the game will at least not crash. Is there anything special you did? Could you describe what you did exactly before it crashed?

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:48 pm**

Any extra security updates to prevent nosy devs from cheating through the thing?

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:56 pm**

Ixnatifual wrote:Any extra security updates to prevent nosy devs from cheating through the thing?

Yes, of course. I implemented a virus that vaporizes any Glögg in a radius of 10 kilometers when you cheat. Not sure whether that was a good idea though since they only seem to be productive when they have enough Glögg.

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:23 pm**

So Phitt published his mod and suddenly the whole forum became a quiet place.

I'd love to talk with you all, but I have a mine to explore.

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:55 pm**

Wow, finished it all, here are my final notes:

SpoilerShow

(going to bed, finish tomorrow)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- read more on food source for "serve the dinner", went back and found sec button I missed, found sec rooms, esp snail room, nice
---(is is possible to, in this one case, set up 4 custom alcoves for that table, so items go in each dinner spot?)
- Noooooo, passage back up blocked! We'll see if I can find another way up later
- typo: "wouldn't have found" reads easier as "hadn't found"
- these steam vents and "lava" vents/fires looks really awesome, such a hot atmosphere! (maybe steam is too dark color?)
- I really like the main big room, so much character there
- Malik notes are great
- found a round circle thing on wall, hmm...
- could 4x4 be buggy? have enough rocks to put four rocks in three of the alcoves, got three poles, put four shurikens in last, nothing
(tried 16 notes, no poles at all)
(tried weapons, in NE alcove put TWO weapons, get pole! Just ONE axe in SW...WAIT A MINUTE, IT'S WEIGHT!!! Very clever! Must be exactly four kg
- "demand sacrifice", dropped some items, tossed some to teleporter, jumped in, got my stuff back, got fancy key, must have done something right
- explored pit
- back to circle on wall, put in red gem! Have to see later what happens
- tried contaminated room, almost died, come back later
- will try light-steps - too many steps!
(I can't remember that much, drew a big tic-tac-toe board on paper, wrote down all the steps by pausing game over and over during fast lights)
- got to crystal room, nice
- going back to contaminated area - found a key, opened room, lever, found sec button, heard door, need to leave again though
- recharge at crystal, repeat
- finally found emergency vent message/button (I always explore perimeter first), quickly found other key, other lever, button, awesome ceiling door!
- got more secrets, more loot, red gem (time to find another circle to put it in)
- stumbled upon another secret nook I must have opened, scimitar, boots, box, awesome
- exploring shrakk_torr domain
- see a grim cap can't reach, how to get there?
- it appears to be all the east/west alcoves that I can't place items on the floor in front of
- never found way to get grim cap, already looked at all walls or sec buttons, maybe missed something, oh well
- see that I need all four red gems, retrieve one from circle, place in eyes, retrieve again just in case
- looks like this might be one way trip, checking map to see if I missed anything...
- I see a pit that I didn't jump in, in shrakk_torr territory
- Haha, more faith bridge! super nice loot, esp since I have a mace guy!
(you know, I even thought earlier "what if it's another faith bridge" but I dismissed the idea!)
- typo: "put something, that fits, into" should not have commas, just "put something that fits into" (due to "that fits" being essential)
- after going down floor, I'm reminded again of the sound problem (hearing looping on other floors), maybe could not do loop but have timer play sound again, and have the custom sound have a short fade-in, fade-out, so that when timer fires it again the fades will overlap, sound mostly constant, and not play on other levels
- holy crap, look at that mouth door!
- just tried every combination I could, picking one for N, then one for S, then the rest, systematically, found combo (3,4,2,2,1,4 or something close)
- crazy cool ballista!
- found a music plate - I suppose there are others, spread around N S E and W, should have found these first, done music puzzle correctly.
(Maybe music sequence could be a couple steps longer, (but not 24!) so I wouldn't brute-force it like I did)
- finally looked around again and found ballista arrow, didn't see it at first!
- YIKES, nothing is hurting that guy!
- ballista works awesome, extremely well done boss fight!
- Malik's final note HAHAHA, love it!!!
- That ending, wow, impressive, so well done (except music is a little funky for my personal taste), love the floating lettering, the unique cave stuff, looks SOOOO good
- really nice to see daylight at the end, great ending

Yeah, this is totally good enough to be an official expansion!

My end stats:
play time 5h24m
13/15 secrets
tiles moved 9699 (that's a lot of running around!)

did iron doors give secret sounds? I don't think I heard one on last door, maybe none though

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:58 pm**

Grabbing it to see that tileset... looks like a new addition for my HQr project.

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:57 pm**

Komag wrote:Wow, finished it all, here are my final notes:

SpoilerShow
(going to bed, finish tomorrow)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- read more on food source for "serve the dinner", went back and found sec button I missed, found sec rooms, esp snail room, nice
---(is is possible to, in this one case, set up 4 custom alcoves for that table, so items go in each dinner spot?)
- Noooooo, passage back up blocked! We'll see if I can find another way up later
- typo: "wouldn't have found" reads easier as "hadn't found"
- these steam vents and "lava" vents/fires looks really awesome, such a hot atmosphere! (maybe steam is too dark color?)
- I really like the main big room, so much character there
- Malik notes are great
- found a round circle thing on wall, hmm...
- could 4x4 be buggy? have enough rocks to put four rocks in three of the alcoves, got three poles, put four shurikens in last, nothing
(tried 16 notes, no poles at all)
(tried weapons, in NE alcove put TWO weapons, get pole! Just ONE axe in SW...WAIT A MINUTE, IT'S WEIGHT!!! Very clever! Must be exactly four kg
- "demand sacrifice", dropped some items, tossed some to teleporter, jumped in, got my stuff back, got fancy key, must have done something right
- explored pit
- back to circle on wall, put in red gem! Have to see later what happens
- tried contaminated room, almost died, come back later
- will try light-steps - too many steps!
(I can't remember that much, drew a big tic-tac-toe board on paper, wrote down all the steps by pausing game over and over during fast lights)
- got to crystal room, nice
- going back to contaminated area - found a key, opened room, lever, found sec button, heard door, need to leave again though
- recharge at crystal, repeat
- finally found emergency vent message/button (I always explore perimeter first), quickly found other key, other lever, button, awesome ceiling door!
- got more secrets, more loot, red gem (time to find another circle to put it in)
- stumbled upon another secret nook I must have opened, scimitar, boots, box, awesome
- exploring shrakk_torr domain
- see a grim cap can't reach, how to get there?
- it appears to be all the east/west alcoves that I can't place items on the floor in front of
- never found way to get grim cap, already looked at all walls or sec buttons, maybe missed something, oh well
- see that I need all four red gems, retrieve one from circle, place in eyes, retrieve again just in case
- looks like this might be one way trip, checking map to see if I missed anything...
- I see a pit that I didn't jump in, in shrakk_torr territory
- Haha, more faith bridge! super nice loot, esp since I have a mace guy!
(you know, I even thought earlier "what if it's another faith bridge" but I dismissed the idea!)
- typo: "put something, that fits, into" should not have commas, just "put something that fits into" (due to "that fits" being essential)
- after going down floor, I'm reminded again of the sound problem (hearing looping on other floors), maybe could not do loop but have timer play sound again, and have the custom sound have a short fade-in, fade-out, so that when timer fires it again the fades will overlap, sound mostly constant, and not play on other levels
- holy crap, look at that mouth door!
- just tried every combination I could, picking one for N, then one for S, then the rest, systematically, found combo (3,4,2,2,1,4 or something close)
- crazy cool ballista!
- found a music plate - I suppose there are others, spread around N S E and W, should have found these first, done music puzzle correctly.
(Maybe music sequence could be a couple steps longer, (but not 24!) so I wouldn't brute-force it like I did)
- finally looked around again and found ballista arrow, didn't see it at first!
- YIKES, nothing is hurting that guy!
- ballista works awesome, extremely well done boss fight!
- Malik's final note HAHAHA, love it!!!
- That ending, wow, impressive, so well done (except music is a little funky for my personal taste), love the floating lettering, the unique cave stuff, looks SOOOO good
- really nice to see daylight at the end, great ending
Yeah, this is totally good enough to be an official expansion!

My end stats:
play time 5h24m
13/15 secrets
tiles moved 9699 (that's a lot of running around!)

did iron doors give secret sounds? I don't think I heard one on last door, maybe none though

Thanks for the feedback! Will fix the typos in the next version.

The 'demand sacrifice' part is actually only a joke. The key down in the pit is always there, you don't need to throw anything into the teleporter. If you throw items into the teleporter (or even better - shoot arrows) you will get hit by them. I imagined how the player desperately throws all kind of stuff into the teleporter and waits for a secret door to open while he slowly kills his own party. A slightly weird joke, that's all there is to it.

Not sure about the alcoves, no idea why you can't put items in front of east/west alcoves.

I knew the 'elevator music' would be a matter of taste, I'm not that happy with it myself. But I looked endlessly on last.fm for free music that fits and originally I wanted epic, orchestral music. But either it sounded crappy (cheap keyboard sound or 90s game midi sound) or it was too slow or too fast or too...something. In the end I chose that song because I liked it somehow and it has the right amount of power and an 'end credits' feel to it, plus it was easy to set up so it becomes slower and quieter in the end when you reach the top.

I'm not sure I understand the part about the iron doors. What iron doors? Secret sounds?

Wonder whether anyone found all 15 secrets.

EDIT: Quite a long play time you have there! I didn't think you could play longer than 3 hours.

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:48 pm**

Phitt wrote:Thanks for the feedback! Will fix the typos in the next version.

The 'demand sacrifice' part is actually only a joke. The key down in the pit is always there, you don't need to throw anything into the teleporter. If you throw items into the teleporter (or even better - shoot arrows) you will get hit by them. I imagined how the player desperately throws all kind of stuff into the teleporter and waits for a secret door to open while he slowly kills his own party. A slightly weird joke, that's all there is to it.

I actually thought afterward that it must be a red herring thing, or that maybe tossing something and getting hit by it triggered the key, wasn't sure.

Phitt wrote:Not sure about the alcoves, no idea why you can't put items in front of east/west alcoves.

Did you set up custom settings on them, such as the target size/position, any different than original game alcoves? They can be affected in one axis like that, I did this myself on purpose on my project for one location, but it's been long enough that I can't remember the settings or how what affected what

Phitt wrote:I'm not sure I understand the part about the iron doors. What iron doors? Secret sounds?

I just mean the door at the end of each level with ornate key locks, I can't remember if when you go in them you discover a secret, hear the "discovered secret" sound, etc, and if so, I think I didn't get a secret in the last one (but maybe I didn't get a secret in any of them, just can't remember)

Phitt wrote:Wonder whether anyone found all 15 secrets.

I'd be very curious to know the missing two I didn't get. I don't plan to replay the dungeon anytime soon, maybe you could post shots of the 15 secrets with brief description?

SpoilerShow

(I placed items on three plates in nooks around large cavern bottom area, don't think I ever knew what that did)

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:23 pm**

Komag wrote: [...]
Did you set up custom settings on them, such as the target size/position, any different than original game alcoves? They can be affected in one axis like that, I did this myself on purpose on my project for one location, but it's been long enough that I can't remember the settings or how what affected what

I just mean the door at the end of each level with ornate key locks, I can't remember if when you go in them you discover a secret, hear the "discovered secret" sound, etc, and if so, I think I didn't get a secret in the last one (but maybe I didn't get a secret in any of them, just can't remember)

I'd be very curious to know the missing two I didn't get. I don't plan to replay the dungeon anytime soon, maybe you could post shots of the 15 secrets with brief description?

Yes, the alcoves have custom settings since they are in a slightly different position than in the original game. Don't think I can do much about it though since when I change the settings items will clip or hang in the air.

The iron doors don't count as secrets.

The secrets are as follows:

SpoilerShow

Level 1:

1. Secret button in barracks, opens area near barracks entrance (opposite of pit) with a sling inside.

2. (now large, but in v1.0 small) Secret button in herder room with tables, opens area close to it with snail and food inside.

3. Two invisible pressure plates in niches in the corridor that leads to the 'serve the dinner' puzzle. They make a quiet click sound, if you put items on both a secret door will open opposite of the entrance to the puzzle room. Gladius inside.

4. Secret button in room below the 'pitfall' puzzle trap doors. Opens area in the same room with a herder inside. This is technically on level 2, but belongs to level 1. Tome inside (IIRC 'Tome of Armors').

Level 2:

5. Secret button next to the first portcullis that leads to the large pit area. Opens area near the location where the spider appears behind a secret door. Orcish Sapat inside.

6. Secret button in the northern part of the spider maze area, opens area right next to it. Tome of Dodging inside.

7. Large secret button on the wall of the lighting bolt course (between demon heads), can be reached via 'faith bridge' only. Opens an area next to the Wyvern at the end of the course. Longbow inside.

8. Secret button in the arena in the first niche with the skeleton archer inside. Opens area north of it with a spider and (I think) a mace weapon inside...or was it a round shield...or both...can't remember.

Level 3:

9. Secret button in the niche where the ogre starts from. Opens an area north of it. Warhammer inside.

10. Secret button in the area with the small herder crowd. Opens are next to it. Poleaxe inside.

11. Three pressure plates in the lower pit area with the scavengers. When all three plates are activated by items they open an area south of the junction between the pit areas/level 3. Crossbow and one of Malik's notes inside.

Level 4:

12. Gem slot in the northern area (close to the contaminated area). When a red gem is put into the slot an area west of it opens. Scimitar inside.

13. Secret button in the final room after the contaminated area where you find the red gem (with Uggardians inside). Opens an area right next to it. Elven Bow inside.

14. Secret button in the niche next to the pit puzzle. Opens an area next to it. Great Axe inside.

15. Secret button in the western Shrakk Torr area (Grimcap next to it). Can only be reached via 'faith bridge'. Royal Mace inside.

Let me guess...you didn't find secrets 7 and 9?

EDIT: Oh, and one more thing. I've started preparing a clean version of the tileset as a modders resource. I wonder what I should do with the special stuff, like the elevator, the ballista, the Shrakk hive, the weapons etc - everything that doesn't really belong to the tileset itself or is so special that it's hardly useful in a different dungeon. I think I will not include it in the download to make sure the editor doesn't get messed up with useless stuff only a small percentage of modders actually want to use when they implement the tileset into their mod - you can still grab the additional assets by downloading the source files of the dungeon if you want them. What do you think how I should handle this (everyone, not just Komag)?

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:56 pm**

I concur to not include those other things, they're separate stuff, not part of the tile set.

You were right about me not getting 7, but I did get 9; missed 5 somehow. Thanks for the list

For the alcoves, it's not the alcove anchor offset itself, it's the target I think it's called, the coordinates setting that determines where you click, not where models show up. You have to have a different set for E/W alcoves as you do for N/S ones due to the space being constant or something like that, it's not relative to the alcove. (IIRC, although I may be remembering something wrong). I think the original alcoves got around the relative issue by not moving the target in X/Z space, only Y, so it's the same on both axes, so that might work again, if the target size is good. If you moved the target in X or Z, then it will be different along the X axis and Z axis depending on if the player is facing N/S or E/W. Sorry, I'm sure I'm being totally unclear about it. Especially sorry if I'm totally wrong!

Grimrock

[Release] The Mine of Malan Vael

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Re: [Release] The Mine of Malan Vael