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Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:00 pm
by Disasterrific
Schnittertm wrote:Disasterrific wrote:One of Toorum's notes does poke fun at the fact that it's all one elaborate puzzle but it's probably best not to question why everything works so well, rather than try to come up with some kind of story to back it up. The goromorgs made it a challenge so that anyone getting to the end would have the strength and power to win the final fight. They made the dungeon wanting it to be defeated.
Yes, but then there comes the next question.
Apparently the Goromorgs where the creators of the dungeon (why else have so many statues of your race on display) or at least so it seems to me and they were able to create the ultimate weapon to stun the cube. They also created those golems with 2 flails, that are actually pretty speedy and very massive, massive enough to very likely stop the cube from using his rolling mode of locomotion. Why then would they need to employ a game of chance to find a group of adventurers to get strong enough to get down to the Cube and destroy it? Why were they not able to do it themselves? It seems they do have the magic, technology, power and numbers (that they can spread around the Cube) to defeat him, yet they chose not to, but they also give their lives to try and stop your group. A very peculiar mode of operation to say the least.
For the same reasons we give life sentences and not capital punishment?
Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:07 pm
by pongsifu
Schnittertm wrote:
They also created those golems with 2 flails, that are actually pretty speedy and very massive, massive enough to very likely stop the cube from using his rolling mode of locomotion.
I tested this, the cube kills the Wardens if it rolls over them.
Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:26 pm
by robc
pongsifu wrote:robc wrote:Did anyone else have to click
a lot of times to
install the parts into the wall and then get them off the cube?
Some were easier than others, but some required clicking dozens of times. That was more annoying than any respawning creatures.
You only have to click once, but you have to click in the right spot. The spot you put the actual part in.
Other than the ore (and maybe one other) I had no idea where it was supposed to be installed. I had to do it by clicking all over the place. Maybe I was just blind.
Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:31 pm
by pongsifu
robc wrote:pongsifu wrote:robc wrote:Did anyone else have to click
a lot of times to
install the parts into the wall and then get them off the cube?
Some were easier than others, but some required clicking dozens of times. That was more annoying than any respawning creatures.
You only have to click once, but you have to click in the right spot. The spot you put the actual part in.
Other than the ore (and maybe one other) I had no idea where it was supposed to be installed. I had to do it by clicking all over the place. Maybe I was just blind.
No, it is pretty tough to see a couple of them. The bladed gear is pretty easy to spot though, it looks like three small gears and you just pull out the middle one. The other gear is harder because is hard to tell which gear you need to pull out. The other part in particular is really hard to see though because it is black and partially obstructed by another piece of the cube.
Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:45 pm
by Kailos
pongsifu wrote:Schnittertm wrote:
They also created those golems with 2 flails, that are actually pretty speedy and very massive, massive enough to very likely stop the cube from using his rolling mode of locomotion.
I tested this, the cube kills the Wardens if it rolls over them.
The cube's keepers attack you rather than it. It is less an actual indication of feasibility as it was the devs just deciding to throw everything at you without context or reason and within the confines of the game's engine.
Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:56 pm
by pongsifu
Oh I didn't think they would attack the cube. I'm just saying they don't survive being rolled over by it.
Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:46 pm
by gasgas
Kailos wrote:pongsifu wrote:Schnittertm wrote:It is less an actual indication of feasibility as it was the devs just deciding to throw everything at you without context or reason and within the confines of the game's engine.
I could partially agree, at least that was the feeling.
Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:11 pm
by Eleas
Schnittertm wrote:Apparently the Goromorgs where the creators of the dungeon (why else have so many statues of your race on display) or at least so it seems to me and they were able to create the ultimate weapon to stun the cube. They also created those golems with 2 flails, that are actually pretty speedy and very massive, massive enough to very likely stop the cube from using his rolling mode of locomotion. Why then would they need to employ a game of chance to find a group of adventurerers to get strong enough to get down to the Cube and destroy it? Why were they not able to do it themselves? It seems they do have the magic, technology, power and numbers (that they can spread around the Cube) to defeat him, yet they chose not to, but they also give their lives to try and stop your group. A very peculiar mode of operation to say the least.
Maybe this explanation is a bit contrived, but I get the sense the Goromorg aren't exactly at the apex of their power anymore. Whether that is because of stagnation or the whispers of some strange clockwork soul in their dreams is anyone's guess. If this had been a role playing campaign and I the gamemaster, I'd probably depict the Goromorg of Grimrock as pitiful and half-mad creatures mindlessly defending and restocking the dungeon because that's what they've always done.
As for why the Undying One couldn't be killed back then, my impression (from reading the Tomb of the Designers note) was that the Goromorg were keeping it prisoner until the passage of time had weakened it sufficiently for the weapon to work.
Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:44 pm
by MASKOAA
Schnittertm wrote:Disasterrific wrote:One of Toorum's notes does poke fun at the fact that it's all one elaborate puzzle but it's probably best not to question why everything works so well, rather than try to come up with some kind of story to back it up. The goromorgs made it a challenge so that anyone getting to the end would have the strength and power to win the final fight. They made the dungeon wanting it to be defeated.
Yes, but then there comes the next question.
Apparently the Goromorgs where the creators of the dungeon (why else have so many statues of your race on display) or at least so it seems to me and they were able to create the ultimate weapon to stun the cube. They also created those golems with 2 flails, that are actually pretty speedy and very massive, massive enough to very likely stop the cube from using his rolling mode of locomotion. Why then would they need to employ a game of chance to find a group of adventurerers to get strong enough to get down to the Cube and destroy it? Why were they not able to do it themselves? It seems they do have the magic, technology, power and numbers (that they can spread around the Cube) to defeat him, yet they chose not to, but they also give their lives to try and stop your group. A very peculiar mode of operation to say the least.
They aren't responsible for the prisoners being thrown down there. The people of the land want to know what's inside so as punishment they keep throwing down certain prisoners who would otherwise be sentenced to death. The promise of freedom if they make it through and tell what's inside.
Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:55 am
by rakenan
Best part of the last battle was
getting the cube to crushify a bunch of the other monsters on the level as it chased me around.
That totally makes the fight - which otherwise I found unpleasant - fun.