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Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon - version 5a
Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:17 pm
by Drakkan
Solitary Drake started to playtrough Eye of the Dragon, so if you are interested, you can check
I will be upgrading the level regarding some notes from video as well from Komag´s observations.
First part
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPBcLSHq ... 0ybnweg6zA
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon - version 5a
Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:51 am
by Eleven Warrior
Awesome Draken love it... Gives me better Design Layouts..THXS
The game itself is well balanced and a pleasure to play..
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon - version 5a
Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:33 am
by Eleven Warrior
Awesome Drakken just Awesome gives me new idea THXS bro...............
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon - version 5a
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:05 pm
by Dr.Disaster
Komag wrote:INSAL
- Wow, Insal's dialog is completely correct (I assume you lifted it directly from EOB2!)
- WHAT THE HECK?!?!? He ran away and stole some of my stuff??? This happened while I was still looking at the menu choice of who to leave behind.
- He still runs away and steals stuff?! You can't really expect me to keep playing with only three party members? Definitely reloading.
- I assume this is part of what happens in EOB2, so
Aye, that's Insal from EoB2. The only reason in EoB2 to let him join the party was when you had no thief he could be used for some nearby thief-action (forgot what it was) because he came along with a set of lockpicks. After that kicking him out was the only way to prevent him stealing and running from your party on next rest.
Finished it on hard with a new party (2 melee rogues and 2 mages) in 19:10 with all 21 secrets, all 6 treasures and 5 skulls found.
Design- and idea-wise i would say this mod is quite good (pretty close to EoB 2) yet there is one thing that completely prevents me from saying so. The further i advanced into this mod the more frustration build up to the point of quiting it. It's not the fights although some really belong into the unfair death-trap department; yet most of such situations can be dealt with once you know what's coming. It's also not that the available gear is balanced for parties with at least(!) one fighter i.e. there are 3 cold protection coats and when you need 4 like i did you either force that shiny cold protection plate mail onto one of your poor going-into-overload rogues/mages or you accept the incoming cold damage as taken.
So what killed my fun playing this mod? In one word: insta-kills.
Insta-kills are the lazy way to tell the player "you failed", "you can't do that", "you can't go there (yet)", "you're too slow/weak/whatever" and so on. If it would be just one or two i won't complain. But noooohoohoo sir, there are dozens, repeat: DOZENS(!) of insta-kill spots in this mod one-hit-killing the party without a warning and if you like to explore like i do you'll be reloading like there were no tomorrow. This becomes very very annoying and we know there are way better methods to punish a player then just insta-killing him. Not my cup of tea, sorry.
Komag wrote:- Insta-kill on clerics button is not cool
- not a fan of surprise-behind-you ambushes
I can tell that this was just the warm-up. There will be a lot more like this the further you get.
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon - version 5a
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:03 am
by Drakkan
Dr.Disaster wrote:Komag wrote:INSAL
- Wow, Insal's dialog is completely correct (I assume you lifted it directly from EOB2!)
- WHAT THE HECK?!?!? He ran away and stole some of my stuff??? This happened while I was still looking at the menu choice of who to leave behind.
- He still runs away and steals stuff?! You can't really expect me to keep playing with only three party members? Definitely reloading.
- I assume this is part of what happens in EOB2, so
Aye, that's Insal from EoB2. The only reason in EoB2 to let him join the party was when you had no thief he could be used for some nearby thief-action (forgot what it was) because he came along with a set of lockpicks. After that kicking him out was the only way to prevent him stealing and running from your party on next rest.
Finished it on hard with a new party (2 melee rogues and 2 mages) in 19:10 with all 21 secrets, all 6 treasures and 5 skulls found.
Design- and idea-wise i would say this mod is quite good (pretty close to EoB 2) yet there is one thing that completely prevents me from saying so. The further i advanced into this mod the more frustration build up to the point of quiting it. It's not the fights although some really belong into the unfair death-trap department; yet most of such situations can be dealt with once you know what's coming. It's also not that the available gear is balanced for parties with at least(!) one fighter i.e. there are 3 cold protection coats and when you need 4 like i did you either force that shiny cold protection plate mail onto one of your poor going-into-overload rogues/mages or you accept the incoming cold damage as taken.
So what killed my fun playing this mod? In one word: insta-kills.
Insta-kills are the lazy way to tell the player "you failed", "you can't do that", "you can't go there (yet)", "you're too slow/weak/whatever" and so on. If it would be just one or two i won't complain. But noooohoohoo sir, there are dozens, repeat: DOZENS(!) of insta-kill spots in this mod one-hit-killing the party without a warning and if you like to explore like i do you'll be reloading like there were no tomorrow. This becomes very very annoying and we know there are way better methods to punish a player then just insta-killing him. Not my cup of tea, sorry.
Komag wrote:- Insta-kill on clerics button is not cool
- not a fan of surprise-behind-you ambushes
I can tell that this was just the warm-up. There will be a lot more like this the further you get.
Hi man,
First, le me congratulate you on finishing it on hard mode with new party, you are definitely first I know, who accomplished this. Also I am really glad you like it overall.
Let me react shortly for the rest -
1. I agree
2. BUT I tried almost everytime to prepare player for some deadly trap or ambush coming. Usually some party chat, or at least some sign., so player should save the game. If player is prepared a little (some potions...) and NOT playing hard difficulty, there is good chance to survive. I believe however, that playing HARD, majority of these ambushes are insta-deadly. But this dungeon was not designed for hard option at first, because even normal option is quite hard if you understand me.
I do not want defend these suprise-behind attack, I know they are quite boring, and I am also trying to re-do some a little for further version, because as you said, it is just weak option how to "prevent" player going further. Komag noticed it first and I completely agree.
As for the coats - If I am not mistaken there are 4 coats, some frozen armour, some frozen necklace, and - oh yes - Maradriel hero, which can cast Frost shield, which prevent ice damage for whole party
About the equipment balance - thats a good note definitely, but as I see it - curently grimrock is designed just for three profesions (fighter, rogue, mage), so fighter is unfortunately required.
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon - version 5a
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:45 am
by Dr.Disaster
Drakkan wrote:1. I agree
2. BUT I tried almost everytime to prepare player for some deadly trap or ambush coming. Usually some party chat, or at least some sign., so player should save the game. If player is prepared a little (some potions...) and NOT playing hard difficulty, there is good chance to survive. I believe however, that playing HARD, majority of these ambushes are insta-deadly. But this dungeon was not designed for hard option at first, because even normal option is quite hard if you understand me.
I do not want defend these suprise-behind attack, I know they are quite boring, and I am also trying to re-do some a little for further version, because as you said, it is just weak option how to "prevent" player going further. Komag noticed it first and I completely agree.
My point is about the usage of insta-kills for simple actions like clicking a button, picking up an item or moving into a new floor tile: boom dead with no warning.
Drakkan wrote:As for the coats - If I am not mistaken there are 4 coats, some frozen armour, some frozen necklace, and - oh yes - Maradriel hero, which can cast Frost shield, which prevent ice damage for whole party
As i stated i found all secrets, so if there are indeed 4 coats i'd like to know where #4 is. The frozen armor does not protect much from frost while the coats do and without a fighter it's just dead weight to carry. I know there are two frostbite necklaces in the mod but only one can be obtained before reaching the Ice Gardens (where it could be of use) and that's only when the player picks the right door in the treasure room. And about Maradriel: she is an Air/Fire mage and knowns zilch about frost magic.
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon - version 5a
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:49 am
by Dr.Disaster
Just finished a second play-thru on normal where Toorum lead Amber, Maradriel and San-Raal to victory. During play i detected some "oddities" which could take a closer look and perhaps a change.
I finished twice with one spare Iron Key found in High Clerics treasure room which fits nowhere.
Insal: as Komag already noted you re-made Insal nicely up to one thing. In your mod Insal runs from the party pretty soon after he was picked up what is prolly done with a timer. Now in EoB2 Insal stays with the party until they set up camp to rest. I suggest changing your Insal's behavior to the original so people can actually play him a bit and are not in such a hurry to get that single lock picked.
Temple Basement: to get past the door with the insta-kill button water orbs are required. Now one would think that one orb per character would do so i tried to get in with Toorum alone, with him and San-Raal and finally with him, Amber and San-Raal. I always brought one orb per character but that silly door refused to budge. Only when Toorom, Amber and San-Raal tried with four orbs (Amber held two) the door opened.
Temple Underground 4: the room directly north of the altar can't be opened because the needed prison key is nowhere to be found. It's the only door with a lock i couldn't open in both playthru's. Perhaps that spare iron key i got was supposed to be a prison key?
Poison Shield scroll: while earth magic is prolly the least used magic this spell scroll comes very late in the mod; after Maradriel! Why?
The Chitin Greaves are missing, along with the Lurker Hood. Oversight?
"Listen to the dead": I know you already changed this a bit, so just FYI that Toorum is still able to get both books.
"Follow the Green": PLEASE change the insta-kill spots here to something else, perhaps teleporters! This puzzle is extremly frustrating to do.
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon - version 5a
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:46 am
by Drakkan
Dr.Disaster wrote:Just finished a second play-thru on normal where Toorum lead Amber, Maradriel and San-Raal to victory. During play i detected some "oddities" which could take a closer look and perhaps a change.
I finished twice with one spare Iron Key found in High Clerics treasure room which fits nowhere.
Insal: as Komag already noted you re-mad...
Temple Basement: to get past the door with the insta-kill button water orbs are required. Now one would think that one orb per character...
Temple Underground 4: the room directly north of the altar can't be opened...
Poison Shield scroll: while earth magic is prolly the least used magic
The Chitin Greaves are missing, along with the Lurker Hood. Oversight?
"Listen to the dead": I know you already changed this a bit, so just FYI that Toorum is still able to get both books.
"Follow the Green": PLEASE change the insta-kill spots here to something else...
Hi, thanks for all the feedback. As many of it is matter of scripting (holding orbs,Insal timer leaving etc...) I will need help from some script masters to correct it eventualy.
For the keys and doors, there is sometimes one key and two doors for it. Reward should be similar, so no issue from my view.
Poison shield, greaves and hood - will look at it, definitely want whole complet to be available
Listen to dead - mod is not designed for toorum, so if you managed to get both books with him, I am ok with that
Follow the green - good spot, this is again matter of scripting, I wanted this to work little different. Will look at it.
thanks once more.
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon - version 5a
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:13 pm
by Duke45
Stuck level 36 Frostbite tower level 2, the gem patterns.
I have all of the gems but could not find the scroll. Could you tell me where the scroll is or what it says.
I am so close to the end and don't want to stop now.
Scott
Re: [MOD] Eye of the Dragon - version 5a
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:52 pm
by Dr.Disaster
Duke45 wrote:Stuck level 36 Frostbite tower level 2, the gem patterns.
I have all of the gems but could not find the scroll. Could you tell me where the scroll is or what it says.
The scroll for the left side is right below it on the floor. For the right side there is no scroll.