Grimrock

Zergpussy wrote: I read about this game being focused massively on solving riddles - well upon a point it did not disturb me at first, then slowly it became awkward.
Am i the only one that thinks this game has gone too far in one direction?
Please don't bash me for my criticism - i know, i dont HAVE to play it. I know, i can wait for a MOD maybe once. I know, i can just keep my mouth CLOSED also.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.

To a large degree, I do agree. The initial puzzles were easy; and they progressed in difficult and problem solving. But then, suddenly (to me) the scale suddenly became massive. Like it went from easy, to a little more difficult, to "go to the forum and find a clue for just about every riddle." This does two things; it takes me out of the "moment" of being in the game, and it also makes me feel quite stupid that I can't solve some of these. (Some, admittedly I hit myself for not realizing - but some are down right horrible - for example, I spent two hours trying to make pits turn a specific way so I could escape a tiny 3x3 area! 2 hours! So it's not like I could go explore and come back to this! I was literally trapped!) And then there's the "twitch puzzles" which require quick reflexes of turning a specific way, very quickly, three times, and throwing an item before a gate closes (in the cemetery). These are not fun to me. And it's ripped the enjoyment out of it for me. I log on, play, give the cemetery puzzle two or three more tries of throwing daggers, fail, and quit the game again. It's a bummer.

Sometimes all you need is a day off or so.
Don't think i managed to get all the puzzles done during beta on first try; oh no! Some even had me stuck for hours. Yet due to the non-linear structure of LoG2 it wasn't too bad; there was always something else to do.

Dr.Disaster wrote: Yet due to the non-linear structure of LoG2 it wasn't too bad; there was always something else to do.

It was often the non-linear structure that assisted/hindered the puzzle solving. A great example is the very first boss fight, the viper roots or whatever they were called. I spent a good while trying to figure out how to 'call the guardians'... eventually I said screw it, I'll go explore more and come back to this. As it turns out, it was the very act of abandoning the puzzle that allowed me to solve it (there was an actual horn you need to summon the guardian... buried deep in the dungeon)

Now that I've thoroughly beaten the game, there are still a few random 'loose ends' around the game that I haven't figured out. So I'm still exploring.

When all is said and done LoG2 is an evolution from 1 in many instances and has many new innovations that shine.
Their Vision (AH) I believe was indeed manifest.
The game is far from perfect. There is nothing that is perfect.

Criticism gives room for improvement.

I will say this though... I have got a lot of love for these developers putting out these games.
As I stated I think the skill system change was not a best move but with what has been added... easily overlooked.
In addition to that they have given us tools to create our own dungeons and maps. And if we get to scripting many new creations are possible.
With the editor anyone can add more loots and create a new style system for skill ups.

The crux of it though is as stated initially. LoG2 evolved, LoG2 innovated in a relic style genre and I think the vision was very well made real.

The frustration of the OP seems to be that there is not enough progression not enough diverse loots and the puzzles are geared towards heavy thought or reflex in some spots. I think it was all intended that way. I am not going to say it is fine as it is and things can not be added in or patched in but overall adding a more robust skill system with the current enemy count or even adding some type of rng drop system with that same count would not work out.

So the editor is there and I would love to see and will love to see what is created.

It's strange that many people think that it wasn't battle oriented or there are too many or hard puzzles.
I think there are a lot of challenging battles, a lot of hack&slash, many times I died, even the AI is improved from the first one.

Meanwhile there are equally balanced puzzles. And you know what I thought? I had the best time with the puzzles, because I found it neither particularly easy not hard and incomprehensible enough. Most balanced puzzles for my taste imho. Because you have puzzles in oldschool adventure games or Myst or dungeon crawlers that really doesn't make sense. But in LOG2, everytime I found a puzzle there were some nice hints, yet you had to pause a bit, get into zen state, not be too impatient to proceed in the game, but not much. Usually after reading a relevant scroll or sign it totally made sense, or if it didn't I tried to reinterpret the message in a different way, and totally made sense and it worked. Very few times I felt like this for puzzles, that satisfaction, without the puzzle being stupid, it's logical if you think, without much effort, 99% I never looked at the walkthrough (and I do this frequently in adventure games, because what the right solution is there is illogical many times, or what the author wants to think of you). I mean,. I have hardcore adventure friends who would find these puzzles very easy even. I read someone solving the cypher puzzle without ever using the scroll (and I understand the logic, but I am not so patient to try all the direction meanings). For me, the puzzles, while not extremely easy, they are casual compared to old dungeon crawlers where they didn't make sense, but just right.

Anyway tastes. I have to agree though that the skill tree. It didn't matter much at first. But when I look at the original planned in their blog post, I am like why didn't they implement that?
As for leveling up. I don't mind. I was playing Borderlands the pre sequel before, which is lovely game, but in the second playthrough I felt depressed: What the hell am I doing with my life? Why do I just need to replay endlessly just for another level gained, another skill-tree raised, another bunch of the same loot? Grimrock doesn't want to be like this. Grimrock kept me content at every moment. For me it has the right balance of fights (they Are challenging), puzzles that are logical, neither too easy, nor too hard, lot's but lot's of secrets and cool stuff to find, totally openworld and exploration.

Just taste though. The right game for me.

p.s. Also, what I did with puzzles and worked greatly for me, is if I found some puzzle room I didn't just stick there if it doesn't come. Since the game is non-linear, I left that room for the moment being, and went to explore other stuff. Soon, I would have found an item relevant to the puzzle or a scroll that makes sense, and have this aha moment. Sometimes I have scroll from previous level wondering what the hell it might be, and later the aha moment is strong. So, maybe walk around patiently, find other stuff, return back later. Before I am like "but what do I have to put in the wall holes?". Later, some items I find make totally sense, oh that must be the room I left before!

p.p.s. Also I read there is not enough exploration. Seriously? I think that was the other big think of LOG2 over LOG1. You are in that central area, to south you have forests, to east cemetaries, you can dive in water and get under bridges in other areas. So many places interconnected. It's one of the most non-linear games I ever played. So many possibilities! And if I fail with one riddle or area, I just leave it and explore something else and discoever new things. Not enough secrets? Come on, some of the things people said here, are exactly what this game is full of! Even loot, I loved it. Every chest I found had some unique item. You always get curious of what you will find next. Unless the OP wants something like Borderlands loot.