Grimrock

dbgager wrote:No I went way above it, and lost both of you in the process.

No, you were in outerspace arguing against things people were not implying, hence the confusion. What the OP asked is very simple, you didn't address it at all...and when you finally actually started to address him on topic, he had already found out himself by running some tests.

Like this:

dbgager wrote:So your suggestion it to make vitality completelly useless. Take it completelly out of the game..and just have a set number of health points every level up. So that all characters are exactly the same.

I like having choices.....Stop worrying about your stats, and simply play and enjoy the game.

He never suggested this anywhere, or came close to making a suggestion like this. If VIT was "Backwards-compatible" like the OP wants, it wouldn't make VIT useless either, and many other RPG's actually have this.

Anyways I don't care either way, I kinda like that it's the way it is, makes the process of character creation require a bit more consideration.

Renevent wrote:/facepalm

You need to go back and read your replies to him, you have no been addressing what he was talking about based on that understanding. I already mentioned in my very first post that description and very well know what it says anyways.

Anyways interesting test mystrdat, thanks for checking it out. I don't agree it means grim news but it's nice to see the actual effects numerically.

The only thing grim about it is that it's random. Next time you level up for +4 instead of +6, you might reconsider the answer and reload the last save.

mystrdat wrote:

Renevent wrote:/facepalm

You need to go back and read your replies to him, you have no been addressing what he was talking about based on that understanding. I already mentioned in my very first post that description and very well know what it says anyways.

Anyways interesting test mystrdat, thanks for checking it out. I don't agree it means grim news but it's nice to see the actual effects numerically.

The only thing grim about it is that it's random. Next time you level up for +4 instead of +6, you might reconsider the answer and reload the last save.

I think some people might, and some people might not. Older D&D games used to have random hit points applied each level too...and yeah I'm sure a lot of people abused it (load/save/ect) others didn't. I know most D&D games just do max hit points on level now too, so obviously there's merit there.

Renevent wrote:

mystrdat wrote:

Renevent wrote:/facepalm

You need to go back and read your replies to him, you have no been addressing what he was talking about based on that understanding. I already mentioned in my very first post that description and very well know what it says anyways.

Anyways interesting test mystrdat, thanks for checking it out. I don't agree it means grim news but it's nice to see the actual effects numerically.

The only thing grim about it is that it's random. Next time you level up for +4 instead of +6, you might reconsider the answer and reload the last save.

I think some people might, and some people might not. Older D&D games used to have random hit points applied each level too...and yeah I'm sure a lot of people abused it (load/save/ect) others didn't. I know most D&D games just do max hit points on level now too, so obviously there's merit there.

That's the whole point of user experience and entertainment value - you probably don't want a part of your playerbase being bothered and paranoid about constant save/loads just because the game can award a random number which they can change - you want them to enjoy the game instead. That's why D&D games don't do it anymore and award the maximum as it was a wrong design.

I would never think of reloading. The game is not about stats..I could not care less, as I am sure a majority of people playing this game are the same. What a way to break up the continuity of the game. OMG I got one less HP..Reload my save..oh geez 1 again. Wooh 2 that time. I am enjoying the puzzles, the challenge, mapping the levels, and the atmoshphere, and trying to develop my character to survive.

That kind of behavior is for perfectionists. You will find the majority does not care. Its a game....enjoy it.

dbgager wrote:I could care less

How much less? Enough to quit trolling and stop being an argumentative bleeped?

I am not trolling. They have a problem with how this game operates and I do not..Are you also a perfectionist.

dbgager wrote:I would never think of reloading. The game is not about stats..I could care less, as I am sure a majority of people playing this game are the same. What a way to break up the continuity of the game. OMG I got one less HP..Reload my save..oh geez 1 again. Wooh 2 that time.

That kind of behavior is for perfectionists. You will find the majority does not care.

If I gave you a dice and said "The highest number is the best, roll as many times as you want...", would you be fine with 3 that you rolled first or would you roll again? Bah, next one was 4, but hey, you got infinite attempts. You would roll to 6, you know you would, people naturally strive for the best they can have.

Now next to your other arguement you use, this "majority". Thing is, majority doesn't know the health gains are random, they don't even check. Majority also probably plays on Easy or Normal. Majority also doesn't know that dexterity doesn't increase ranged damage. Majority probably doesn't have a clue about most of the secrets in the game. Majority also doesn't mod content for games and create communities around it. Majority will never enter this forum. I'm not the majority, neither are you and I see this as a flaw which has an easy solution.

By the way, next time you level up, I'm pretty sure this will cross your mind It doesn't have to if the devs remove the random element, you could be at peace and just play the game. And last time I checked, perfectionist is a compliment.

mystrdat wrote:
That's the whole point of user experience and entertainment value - you probably don't want a part of your playerbase being bothered and paranoid about constant save/loads just because the game can award a random number which they can change - you want them to enjoy the game instead. That's why D&D games don't do it anymore and award the maximum as it was a wrong design.

I understand how not getting a "perfect" roll outcome for a character can be frustrating. I have focused on that in the past. Most games don't do that now and are friendlier to min-maxing. I like how this game was setup though. It skills more important than stats from what I've seen so far. It also allows you more choice in developingcharacters so there isn't a specific "best" build. You now have a real trade off to consider when choosing to max stats or skills.

If they ever do make changes, I hope they are optional.

amnnor wrote:

mystrdat wrote:
That's the whole point of user experience and entertainment value - you probably don't want a part of your playerbase being bothered and paranoid about constant save/loads just because the game can award a random number which they can change - you want them to enjoy the game instead. That's why D&D games don't do it anymore and award the maximum as it was a wrong design.

I understand how not getting a "perfect" roll outcome for a character can be frustrating. I have focused on that in the past. Most games don't do that now and are friendlier to min-maxing. I like how this game was setup though. It skills more important than stats from what I've seen so far. It also allows you more choice in developingcharacters so there isn't a specific "best" build. You now have a real trade off to consider when choosing to max stats or skills.

If they ever do make changes, I hope they are optional.

I think the above reply fits your comment as well.