Grimrock

I agree with what Donjangles said.

I don't have any major complaints about items abundance or lack thereof. I don't want LoG becoming the next AD&D computer game where there is always overabundance of items. Overabundance of loot can be really annoying and less credible.

As for the interface, it seems okay to me but yes, everything could be improved, but it fits the game setting well (even if you must take into account nostalgic reasons).

Wow, this thread took a life of its own.

http://youtu.be/o6rZMwCLwXA?t=1m53s
It's not quite the 'hate video' I promised, and it jumps to the example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKhK_zYkm24
Zero commentary.

I've read the pages of posts and I'm not going to spend time calling people on being fans of the game. There's nothing wrong with that, as I'm a fan of the game.

However, please know, it's because I'm a fan of the game that I post two absolutely massive posts describing exactly what I feel are the issues at hand.
I'm not doing it again. Some people agree profusely, and others produce debate. So be it.

Say what you will. It really doesn't matter how you chart it (that was impressive), or how you argue the dispersion, length of the game, etc.
I had my reaction, the same reaction as many other folks.
I see the community, I see plainly how people feel, how people are responding. Not rocket science. It's #262 and #fff.
I posted. I made a point of letting the developers know. I don't care about letting fans know. They know. But the developers deserve to know. Cause they're announcing a sequel and haven't really addressed gameplay of the first one since its release.
Hey guys, it kinda sucks at times. Please fix.


In any event, if you took offense to my post, please get over it. It's text and it's the internet.
Like I said originally: Quick! Delete it.


Homage is not an excuse.



Yes, the game was good, but I haven't played it in a while because it'll be the fourth time I'm running through it and I just ran out of care.

Meh.

I really don't see your "problem" of Unarmed Combat vs. any other melee weapon class.

For example let's pick 2 minotaur fighters. 1st gets max Str rest Dex, Skilled and Fistfighter traits and all skill points go to Unarmed Combat. 2nd get max Str rest Dex, Skilled and a trait like i.e. Aggressive and all his skill points go to either Axe, Mace or Sword. As a result i have 2 melee fighters who are both doing very well and both are on par when the weapon wielding one has only a basic weapon. Once he has a better weapon i.e Cutlass, Warhammer or Battle Axe he get's the advantage.

It's about the same with melee rogues using Unarmed Combat or Dagger as soon as the weapon using rogue gets anything better than the regular Dagger.

The point is: it's not about the weapon skill used, it's about specialization. Skills the player focuses on become powerfull really fast.

In regard to this:

Yes, the game was good, but I haven't played it in a while because it'll be the fourth time I'm running through it and I just ran out of care.

You know there are already hundreds of custom dungeons out there? Last time i checked on Steam their number was closing in to 580. Even when 3 out of 4 are junk or unfinished, you still got more then enough to play.

I liked the fact that if you learned to time your strikes, you could prevent the monster from attacking you during a cooldown.

And that's what's in the Fighter's Challenge? Eeep!
That's terrifying!

tantoedge wrote:Wow, this thread took a life of its own.
http://youtu.be/o6rZMwCLwXA?t=1m53s
It's not quite the 'hate video' I promised, and it jumps to the example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKhK_zYkm24
Zero commentary.
<snip>
Meh.

Well, to give you some balanced feedback (even when your first post was overly negative and unbalanced)... I share your feeling that several smaller balancing / polishing issues still existing in LOG. While I'm very fine with the base concept and implementation...there rough edges, some were named by you, others were named in other posts. But even with this rough edges, LOG was by far my favourit game in 2012, no question. The second game I enjoyed in 2012 was FTL also by a very small indie studio. Which was game mechanic wise signifiantly more complex than LOG and despite that surprisingly well balanced & almost issue free, so complexity & developer ressources can't be an excuse. So, I have still hope that later patches will fix some of the rough edges in LOG.

I bought FTL off Steam at 75% discount this weekend. It doesn't look as pretty as LoG, but it's damn fun! I already clocked 8 hours in it and lost plenty of ships

Ixnatifual wrote:I bought FTL off Steam at 75% discount this weekend. It doesn't look as pretty as LoG, but it's damn fun! I already clocked 8 hours in it and lost plenty of ships

Good deal for such a great game, congratulation. I clocked into the game... weeks(?) until I first time beat in normal... was big fun!

petri wrote:Thanks for the feedback.

The interface is a big part of the game design, and the rune based magic system is deliberately designed to make casting spells challenging in the heat of battle. To counter the increased challenge, high level spells do some significant area of effect damage.

Changing the spell system to use hotkeys would be equivalent to mapping one button to perform a combo attack in Tekken without chance of misclicks (some people would probably like this change, but it is certainly not what the designers of Tekken had in mind), or to exaggerate a little, like replacing the buttons in a Guitar Hero guitar with a single button.

You're right, that Grimrock would be a very different game if it was designed for the masses. Lack of hotkeys for spell casting, tile based movement, challenging puzzles, brutal monsters, lack of an onscreen map are just a few examples.

Some frantic clicking has to be there for a game of this class to work. If you use AutoHotkey in LoG, what next, G15 macros in Magicka? Cause I tried that, and you're not playing Magicka anymore, you're playing Diablo Easy Mode; the whole fun in Magicka is trying to get the right spell off by clicking correcly without killing your mates, the actual fight is secondary.

Either LoG is a DM remake, or another generic RPG. I'm sure people will eventually LUA tons of stuff so that the LoG ENGINE becomes like other games, but I'd like the CORE to remain like DM for the Old School playstyle, so by all means, allow people to do more, but retain the base to what it is now.

I'm pretty sure for example that it would not be impossible to one day allow full 3D exploration and combat rather then isometric movement, but I would not want it as default.

I'm pretty sure for example that it would not be impossible to one day allow full 3D exploration and combat rather then isometric movement, but I would not want it as default.

While I understand what you mean having seen the impressive things people can do, I am afraid that I am almost sure that that would be entirely impossible.(of course I know that you're not hoping for that to be done or anything. Just sayin' that it couldn't be done even if we wanted to.)

Asteroth wrote:

I'm pretty sure for example that it would not be impossible to one day allow full 3D exploration and combat rather then isometric movement, but I would not want it as default.

While I understand what you mean having seen the impressive things people can do, I am afraid that I am almost sure that that would be entirely impossible.(of course I know that you're not hoping for that to be done or anything. Just sayin' that it couldn't be done even if we wanted to.)

Yeah it would be pretty surprising if it was possible by simply "unlocking" the movement. I'm sure there's a bunch of stuff the devs were happy to leave aside since it wasn't necessary with LoG's movement. A proper collision detection, for instance, is a bit more complicated than just looking if the grid case in the direction of movement is empty or not.