Grimrock

robc wrote: I agree that the idea shouldn't be dismissed, but your numbers aren't even close to realistic. I couldn't find out how many more Windows users there are in the world than Linux, but I'm guessing that it is a lot.

I never said they would sell 50k to Linux users. I said there`s a potential market out there - in response to the ridiculous, and oft-repeated "catering to the 3 people" adage. I hear it every time a niche market is mentioned - be it vinyl records, jRpgs, turn based dungeon crawlers, etc.
It`s obvious there`s more Windows users than Linux ones (data can be found as far as Wikipedia page) - "more" doesn`t mean they don`t exist though. No reason to snigger then, really, and no reason why some questions regarding a port couldn`t be answered.

Anyway - you`re "guessing" yourself. Here`s a little story from the "niche/3 people" camp though: couple of years ago few fanatics licensed & translated obscure Japanese doujin game: "Recettear: An Item Shop's Tale". Brave sales estimates were set at 10k, and lots of predictable comments were heard. Well, with no advertising and purely through word of mouth they ended up selling 170 thousand units on Steam.

Hey, no need to get defensive, mate.

Just try stepping in the developers' boots and THINK for one second. It's their first release, so they aren't gonna gamble it with some unpopular platform. The future of their company DEPENDS on this.

Potential market maybe, but it's still ridiculously tiny in comparison.

Mameluk wrote:Just try stepping in the developers' boots and THINK for one second. It's their first release, so they aren't gonna gamble it with some unpopular platform. The future of their company DEPENDS on this.

This is exactly right. I'm a huge Linux fan (and run Fedora Core on my primary PC that I use every day), but I'm willing to concede that most of my gaming takes place in Windows. I'm as happy as anyone else when developer go the extra mile to support a Linux release as well, but I completely understand and appreciate why a developer, particularly an indie dev trying to make it with their first big game, is going to opt to spend their time maximizing the quality of their release on a single platform rather than conceding time that could be spent on polishing that single release to try and cater to niche markets.

If it's technically feasible and the level of success necessary to warrant such a release on a different platform is there I'm sure there's a decent chance you'll get what you want, but you need to recognize (as you appear to) that you are part of a very niche market for gaming and small indie developers may not have the time or budget to reach out to that small corner of the market (at least not right away).

Mameluk wrote:Hey, no need to get defensive, mate.
Just try stepping in the developers' boots and THINK for one second. It's their first release, so they aren't gonna gamble it with some unpopular platform. The future of their company DEPENDS on this.

Loving the "get defensive" hehe, the ol` chestnut. Next up: "strawman" :)

How about we strike a deal - I`ll THINK for one second, hell, maybe even two - if you actually READ my posts? For example: "Sure, can`t expect a small studio to bother with a conversion. No reason to dismiss the idea though." No need to get preachy mate, just read first, shoot later.

Potential market maybe, but it's still ridiculously tiny in comparison.

if you fail to see the irony of arguing against "ridiculously tiny" market (which is of course guesswork btw) on a forum dedicated to a game that itself caters to such market (have look on mainstream gaming forums for learned opinions on old school dungeon crawlers) then I can`t help you here ;)

Don`t want to clutter this thread furthermore with a pointless (like 99% of internet ones) argument - just to state again that my lil` calculation came as a reply to Lethal Blade`s sniggery remark, not trying to convince the team they should drop everything and get converting. Such asides are always rather smug and uncalled for, but I guess we couldn`t have a Linux thread without one.

You're right, nothing in that post sounds even remotely defensive. /rollseyes

I don't have a lot of market stats to quote, but my own and what I remember from humble bundle stats. Based on those, the windows market is bigger than the osx and linux markets combined. By a wide margin. The humble bundle stats are also biased towards linux, being so public, while windows users don't really need it to get their gaming fix.

Whenever I've tried to support linux with my programs, the community has been downright hostile, insulting, and unhelpful.

Steam supports osx, but not linux. I wonder why?

All that said, if AH feels they want to support Linux, I'm all for it - it is a potential market. I'd rather concentrate on bigger markets such as the ipad first, though.

Here's a nice analysis of Humble Bundle stats, and yes, Linux and Mac are dramatically in the minority by comparison:

http://cheesetalks.twolofbees.com/humbleStats.php

I think it's much less about having the game sell more copies than it is about the developers' values. I for one run Windows most of the time even though I prefer Linux, just because many developers don't want to bother with a third platform. Developers know that Linux contains a smaller audience, but some choose to release for and support Linux anyway because they want cross-platform compatibility (and they don't want to restrict their audience to just Windows and/or OS X), which is something I think is highly commendable.

I've still pre-purchased the game and will probably still attempt to run it on Wine, but I would much prefer it if they would release a version native for Linux. Linux users tend to be more generous and supportive (shown by Humble Bundle statistics, anyway), and at the least by releasing for them you're allowing them to use their native OS instead of having to virtualize or switch to play the game.

tl;dr I acknowledge the difficulty in supporting cross-platform compatibility, but in the end it's about the developers' values/abilities rather than about sales.

Heck, I know the value of being cross-platform; I used to develop software that run on dozens of platforms (literally). At the beginning, when we moved the stuff to a new platform we found lots of issues we had not seen earlier. The result was rock solid software. So yes, even if you're never releasing on linux, it may be worth to do the port. Just don't expect the community to like you, whatever you do.

The bottom line here is it really doesn't matter how big the Linux market is. 90% of the people (actual statistic ) that would buy a Linux version will buy a Windows version anyway. They're used to having to run/emulate Windows for gaming purposes already and are very unlikely to let a lack of Linux support keep them from a game they otherwise want.

In other words, a Linux version is likely to create very few new sales. Editor, iOS, expansion, etc on the other hand are likely to create many new sales.