Grimrock

@Stage: That quiver screenshot is from an RTC mod, it was never in the original Dungeon Master game. Although they did add a quiver in DM2, purely so that you got more slots than the original 4 from DM1.

There's no need for a quiver in LoG. As others have said, your offhand is effectively the quiver, and with auto collection there's no burden to picking up what you fired. There's absolutely no functional difference between having a quiver and having your off hand behave as if it's a quiver.

don't feed the trolls gambit.

gambit37 wrote:@Stage: That quiver screenshot is from an RTC mod, it was never in the original Dungeon Master game. Although they did add a quiver in DM2, purely so that you got more slots than the original 4 from DM1.

There's no need for a quiver in LoG. As others have said, your offhand is effectively the quiver, and with auto collection there's no burden to picking up what you fired. There's absolutely no functional difference between having a quiver and having your off hand behave as if it's a quiver.

The quiver like the one in return to chaos would serve to put the different arrow types in their own slots, so the ammo would be changed in order like occurred in eye of the beholder.

Greetings.

As long as we're just posting opinions here, I'd like to go the other way on this.

It's clearly (to me) a gameplay mechanic to force you to hold the ammunition in the off hand, preventing the use of a stat-boosting off-hand item like a shield. That's the tradeoff you have between wielding a missle weapon (2 hands, can enchant ammo) vs. going with thrown weapons. I really like the trade-off, I think it's intelligent gameplay design, and I hope the devs choose not to change it. The way they implemented auto-pickup of ammo is already perfect. I loved the way the old Dungeon Master forced me to juggle inventory during tense moments and I appreciate that this was preserved (to some extent) in Grimrock.

Vichar wrote:The way they implemented auto-pickup of ammo is already perfect. I loved the way the old Dungeon Master forced me to juggle inventory during tense moments and I appreciate that this was preserved (to some extent) in Grimrock.

It's got a flaw or two. Archers that expend enchanted arrows don't auto-collect the non-enchanted leftovers. This feels unintentional and clunky. If a mechanic was designed to auto-loot expended ammo, then it should work consistently. Manually scouring a room for arrows can be frustrating in many areas and is often impossible in combat. This is not fun, which means it's not good design.

I think a certain degree of inventory micromanagement is acceptable, and that's pretty much covered by the enchanting system itself. I don't think the quiver would have to occupy an equipment slot. It could be an abstract concept to explain a system for sorting / queuing ammo types. A simple check box for cycling through available arrow types when equipped ammo is expended would be sufficient.

gambit37 wrote:There's no need for a quiver in LoG. As others have said, your offhand is effectively the quiver, and with auto collection there's no burden to picking up what you fired. There's absolutely no functional difference between having a quiver and having your off hand behave as if it's a quiver.

I'm not playing with a Rogue currently, but let's see if I understand correctly. The feature that a few people have mentioned that was possible with other games, but not in LoG, is the ability to mix arrows. Lets say you have only one enchanted arrow, and several regular ones. It would be possible to load these into a quiver, then fire them in the intended order. With item stacking (a great improvement), it is necessary to have all arrows of the same type, right? As such, you could fire off one enchanted arrow, but then it would be necessary to go into the pack and grab the others. I'm not sure that should be necessary. Didn't the original Dungeon Master have a few slots that could be filled with dissimilar objects so that when one was thrown or fired, the next would automatically equip in the free hand? I think this is what I would like the quiver to do.

Let's say there's a quiver. Problems:

1. You have to have an empty hand to use the bow. Thus, you don't get any additional benefit from a dedicated "arrow slot".
2. Switching between arrow types just got more complicated.

So, having a quiver would be a cosmetic change, at best.

The idea is that whatever is in your hands is what they are using.
You might as well ask, "Why is there no sheathe for your sword?"

Sol_HSA wrote:Let's say there's a quiver. Problems:

1. You have to have an empty hand to use the bow. Thus, you don't get any additional benefit from a dedicated "arrow slot".
2. Switching between arrow types just got more complicated.

So, having a quiver would be a cosmetic change, at best.

It's not cosmetic. A character will only recognize a single ammo type to auto-collect, yet the enchant system involves (at the least) two different types of projectiles. That's a problem because one of those ammo types has to be manually looted, which - aside from being time-consuming - entirely defeats the purpose of having an auto-collect feature in the first place.

The logistics behind using an archer are really silly right now. You need a mage, the rogue itself, and a third character dedicating a slot to auto-collect the spent ammo. This is the situation I was encountering last night:



The melee rogue should be using a shield, but can't because if he isn't holding that single bolt then no one picks the stuff up. The ranged rogue does not retrieve his own ammo, as it ceases to be enchanted when he fires, and he only picks up enchanted ammo. I don't believe this is working as intended.

A quiver on the paper doll would address this by allowing the ranged rogue to recognize multiple types of ammo. Forcing the player to use multiple characters or multiple dedicated slots simply to retrieve spent ammo is frustrating, but as of right now there's no other way of doing it.

I realize there are a lot of really bad suggestions in this thread. Some are outright laughable. But the devs really should take a look at ammo collection and management. There's room for improvement in the current system.

I was shooting bow/arrow for some time. I did parcours with it. Now what you do when you're prepared to encounter enemies: you're ready to shoot at any point.

Meaning: you're allways (ALLWAYS) having an arrow ready, lines up in the bow, but loose and ready to pull, aim and shoot. Nobody takes a walk in a dungeon keeping his arrows in the quiver and -then- when danger appears, grabs the arrow, etc.

In this sence it's okay to have both hands blocked for Bow-use.