Grimrock

stepsongrapes wrote:

FULLMETALJ wrote: He pirated an indie game, potentially nullifying profits to the developers simply because he couldn't demo the game.

I believe I mentioned that earlier.

That's not addressing the OP's point on the need for a demo, that's you thumping your chest some more about pirating.

Addressing whether Grimlock should have a demo and whether it would benefit from the same is separate from the issue of the OP's pirating.

I decided to address what he did because he couldn't demo the game.

"Please, provide a demo so that I don't pirate!"

That kind of behavior is senseless, pirating indie games is wrong, no matter how you look at it.

spreadsheets wrote: As a sidenote, I firmly believe that games who lose their value after one playthrough are flawed and should fix exactly that. If one pirated first time playthrough eliminates most of the motivation a player could have for playing your game, you did something wrong as a developer.

I agree with all your points save for this, some games are really good, but only for one playthrough. Not worth the price of admission if it's a full priced game but sometimes very worth it on cheaper games, Terraria comes to mind, although I agree, re-playability is a very VERY important aspect of what makes a good game.

FULLMETALJ wrote:

stepsongrapes wrote:

FULLMETALJ wrote: He pirated an indie game, potentially nullifying profits to the developers simply because he couldn't demo the game.

I believe I mentioned that earlier.

That's not addressing the OP's point on the need for a demo, that's you thumping your chest some more about pirating.

Addressing whether Grimlock should have a demo and whether it would benefit from the same is separate from the issue of the OP's pirating.

I decided to address what he did because he couldn't demo the game.

"Please, provide a demo so that I don't pirate!"

That kind of behavior is senseless, pirating indie games is wrong, no matter how you look at it.

Why? Because the game does not get bought?
Is not buying indie games wrong, too?

FULLMETALJ wrote: "Please, provide a demo so that I don't pirate!"

That kind of behavior is senseless, pirating indie games is wrong, no matter how you look at it.

Define piracy, because it it involves taking a game and then not paying for it, no piracy was done really.

FULLMETALJ wrote:Pirating indie games?
You are trash.
Fucking trash.
What you're doing to the industry is despicable.

Forfeit your right to bitch about DRM, online passes and so on.

You're the reason behind shit like that.

Does baby need his bottle? Need to be put down for a nap? Poor little dear's upset.

The OP bought the game. Without piracy he wouldn't have bought it. Seems that baby here lacks basic reading comprehension skills.

Halk wrote:

FULLMETALJ wrote:He pirated an indie game, potentially nullifying profits to the developers simply because he couldn't demo the game.

It's just as valid (and in this case true) to say he pirated an indie game, increasing the profits to the developers, despite them not bothering with a demo.

No it is not. Trying to pay one's way out of it does not absolve one's guilt; it's not one's right to steal another person's work ~whatever the silly rational. I do not understand how this can be looked at as 'it's all okay in the end'. It's not.

Thorgrey wrote:

spreadsheets wrote: As a sidenote, I firmly believe that games who lose their value after one playthrough are flawed and should fix exactly that. If one pirated first time playthrough eliminates most of the motivation a player could have for playing your game, you did something wrong as a developer.

I agree with all your points save for this, some games are really good, but only for one playthrough. Not worth the price of admission if it's a full priced game but sometimes very worth it on cheaper games, Terraria comes to mind, although I agree, re-playability is a very VERY important aspect of what makes a good game.

Isn't Terraria a kind of sandboxy game?
I didn't think it had a straight storyline you could beat and be done with it.
And really like the most straightforward good game I can think of is probably Serious Sam (First or Second Encounter). Even that has variety. Secrets, different difficulty modes, multiplayer. Ways to mix it up for the next playthrough.
I mean even Terraria offers at least multiplayer and as far as i am aware secrets, too. It's a fairly good game, so the motivation is there to play it again. Therefore it does not fall into the category of games I was talking about.

An example of what I meant would maybe be Mass Effect 3 or X-Blade. Note how those two are both bad games.
Mass Effect 3 is of the kind that at most after one playthrough you realize the game fails to satisfy at pretty much every level possible and as such there is no reason to keep playing it.
X-Blade can actually be played through completely in one go and on top of that it's not very fun.

I might have accidently implied that but I was not exclusively talking about replayability in the sense of varied storylines on different playthroughs or the like.
I was talking about giving people who played the pirated version some kind of motivation to still play the game.
Beyond Good & Evil is a good example in my opinion. That game does not have branches (at all I think). Still it is exactly what I mean when I talk about a game that motivates you to play. It's just incredibly good and an all around fun experience that you just want to play again because it's good. And that "I want to play this again!" is all a game needs to fulfill my criterion.

FULLMETALJ wrote: I decided to address what he did because he couldn't demo the game.

"Please, provide a demo so that I don't pirate!"

That kind of behavior is senseless, pirating indie games is wrong, no matter how you look at it.

While you may not agree, morally, with OP's rationale, saying it is "senseless" is just being obtuse. He had a very clear reason for doing what he did. It's debatable whether it is right or wrong, but senseless it is not.

Isaac wrote:

Halk wrote:

FULLMETALJ wrote:He pirated an indie game, potentially nullifying profits to the developers simply because he couldn't demo the game.

It's just as valid (and in this case true) to say he pirated an indie game, increasing the profits to the developers, despite them not bothering with a demo.

No it is not. Trying to pay one's way out of it does not absolve one's guilt; it's not one's right to steal another person's work ~whatever the silly rational. I do not understand how this can be looked at as 'it's all okay in the end'. It's not.

Please stop talking about theft. It is rather dumb.
If someone buys the game and then copies it (This is how piracy works.), then gives it to other people and they give it around some more.
THAT IS NOT THEFT.

Theft would be if the very first guy did not pay for the game but somehow took the data from the devs without paying for it.
Theft involves removing a good that is for sale from the person that sells it.
That does not happen with piracy.

Isaac wrote:

Halk wrote:

FULLMETALJ wrote:He pirated an indie game, potentially nullifying profits to the developers simply because he couldn't demo the game.

It's just as valid (and in this case true) to say he pirated an indie game, increasing the profits to the developers, despite them not bothering with a demo.

No it is not. Trying to pay one's way out of it does not absolve one's guilt; it's not one's right to steal another person's work ~whatever the silly rational. I do not understand how this can be looked at as 'it's all okay in the end'. It's not.

Pretty presumptuous to assume feelings of guilt were involved.