Grimrock

Grim Reaper wrote:What on earth is "save scumming" ?

Thats a complete new one to me? is it a suggestion its cheating to do saves now?

If so you'd need to be clean off your head to sit through a hard game like this in one go, or pretty damn dedicated.

...

Save scumming is more about the abuse of the save system than just using it. For example, saving before a big fight isn't save scumming by most peoples' definitions. Saving 10 times during that fight on the other hand... that's abuse of a system to circumvent any hint of a challenge. Consider "most" NES games: you get 3 lives to beat the entire game. Developers made checkpoints which allowed manageable chunks of challenge. Then save-anywhere was implemented; "most" people save at the same place developers would put a checkpoint, but we now have the convenience to save & quit if real life happens. Thus, the game still has some challenge to it. But some people like to abuse the save-anywhere system...

Some people like me. I save scum all the time because I dedicate a limited amount of time to playing games and I'd rather finish games than get bored of them and move on. I like to crank up the difficulty so the challenge is steady the majority of the time but when the going gets tough, F5 & F9 keep me progressing.

Anurias wrote:

minmay wrote:Difficulty level doesn't affect either of those things.

Then how about you actually correct me and tell us all what it does affect because I stated what I saw it affecting between my normal and hard mode playthroughs. I had things hitting me more often and harder in hard mode than on normal, and I was hitting less often, and having to hit enemies a lot more on hard mode... so if my experience is wrong, then please, by all means enlighten us to the truth instead of just blanket saying that I'm wrong with no actual counter.

Er...what sort of "counter" would be satisfactory to you, exactly? The game tells you what difficulty level affects.

It doesn't affect how your stats work or how many hit points enemies have or how much damage you do. And if you don't believe the game for some reason, I've also done some "LuaJIT diving" and am 100% confident that difficulty only affects monster damage, speed, and AI.

I would say that on easy mode and with at least one alchemist preferably 2 the game will become extremely completable for a wide array of people.
With alchemist you can have a veritable font of healing potions.
With easy mode you can face tank often.

Aside from some secrets/puzzles that do require some quick reflexes and some fights sooner or later you will achieve completion.
Completion taking X hours versus completion taking X++ hours is still completion.

The thing I like about LoG and always have is brute force is not a necessary component to overcome obstacles.
All the really harsh areas have safe spots. And that is the same for the bosses.
In addition with the above alchemists you have the freeze potions which are simply just life saving tools.
There is of course one fight in the cemetery and the one in the pyramid(secret) that require toe to toe but other than that nothing requires that level of play.

minmay wrote:[Er...what sort of "counter" would be satisfactory to you, exactly? The game tells you what difficulty level affects.
img]http://i.imgur.com/1pTLWVE.png[/img]

You could have been less smarmy and just said:

"Difficulty doesn't affect that, the difficulty setting in game says it affects enemy damage, speed and agressiveness."

Perhaps you weren't being smarmy and it just came across that way, no tone in text.

Nexus wrote:

minmay wrote:[Er...what sort of "counter" would be satisfactory to you, exactly? The game tells you what difficulty level affects.
img]http://i.imgur.com/1pTLWVE.png[/img]

how did that bracket in your quote manage to move over 1 line and 116 characters

Nexus wrote:Perhaps you weren't being smarmy and it just came across that way, no tone in text.

I had no intention of being smarmy, just wanted to correct some misinformation.

1. Buggered if I know...

2. Ok glad we cleard that up.

Olson.dev wrote: Save scumming is more about the abuse of the save system than just using it. For example, saving before a big fight isn't save scumming by most peoples' definitions. Saving 10 times during that fight on the other hand... that's abuse of a system to circumvent any hint of a challenge. Consider "most" NES games: you get 3 lives to beat the entire game. Developers made checkpoints which allowed manageable chunks of challenge. Then save-anywhere was implemented; "most" people save at the same place developers would put a checkpoint, but we now have the convenience to save & quit if real life happens. Thus, the game still has some challenge to it. But some people like to abuse the save-anywhere system...

Some people like me. I save scum all the time because I dedicate a limited amount of time to playing games and I'd rather finish games than get bored of them and move on. I like to crank up the difficulty so the challenge is steady the majority of the time but when the going gets tough, F5 & F9 keep me progressing.

Indeed and in a single player, the only person who's fun is impacted is you, the player.

There's bragging rights in doing an ironman run but since my RL hobby ironically IS triathlon, there's a little problem. I simply don't have the time nor finger dexterity to do a single-use hard mode ironman. I don't complain. I love the game for the puzzles. I fully respect people who do ironman runs in this game but at the same time, I don't let it impact my own gaming experience.

As for save scumming, I had to do so on the lindworm. I don't think my party is able to kill the island master. Had to restart the entire game just for that fight :p

Just as an update to this thread (original disabled poster) ... I'm progressing in GM2 now again, took some time out, took a breather and am back in the thick of things again ... still on easy and second try still.

As mentioned, I'm not too good at the few quick reaction puzzles as in Grimrock 1, but the ones I learn in Grimrock 2 now once I understand the concept I can deal with so far with patience and trial and error ... save scumming I suppose?

heh

I've actually taken good advice here, started off with a random party .... bunch of freaks, LOL that I've now learned to love and nurture and want to help them end the game , old school gamers would start with best stats possible, is that not cheating too?



its been good advice here so far, I'm not saying what area I'm at because I dont know? but I've got 4 gems or something warmed up ... I spent about 10 hours in Crystal Crypts killing spiders and suchlike and developing tactics, probably no idea what I'm dong in investing experience points? utter repetitive tedium at times but I'm outta there exploring all 3? levels, probably invested XP all the wrong way

I must have killed about 1000+ spiders and the floaty things too. they definitely respawn.



All I'm saying is to other gamers who find this hard, hang in there, you can make progress, difficult even on easy, but you can.

As for save scumming, I don't think my party is able to kill the island master. Had to restart the entire game just for that fight :p

Oh shit, wish I'd not read that. and wont start the game a third time to end it.

Thats a bridge too far, even for me. Fun stops after first bang head on wall.

I know now my idiot but lovable characters are not up to that or ever will be.

I know how difficult it has been for me so far (on easy), but the whole experience has been tinged with tedium as much as enjoyment for me so far.

A bigger game for sure, maybe GM1 was better though overall?

Does anyone remember Ultima Underworld 1 and 2 ? Bought these as they came out ... and yes snipers, know they are not exact same type games, but first one was awesome, second got bigger and more complex, more bugs too, a lot more complicated and harder and less fun ... this is just an analogy, but I really preferred UW1 as a game.

Grim Reaper wrote:

As for save scumming, I don't think my party is able to kill the island master. Had to restart the entire game just for that fight :p

Oh shit, wish I'd not read that. and wont start the game a third time to end it.

You never know until you tried.