Grimrock

petri wrote:Hi there! Yes, strength is the ability which increases damage, melee and ranged. Dex affects melee accuracy, evasion and some resistances.

Cheers for your answer.

It may be worth making this clearer in the character creation as many people are designing characters to use bows and maxing their dexterity. (not realising strength was needed) Also why does the missile weapons skill increase Dex, since it's actually of no use what so ever with them? Perhaps it should be changed to strength?

Daniel.

Jack Dandy wrote:I still think it would make more sense if DEX would be the prime factor for bows\crossbows.

It would actually make more sense if crossbows couldn't have their damage increased at a all, and normal bows were based on strength. In real historical warfare, archers were incredibly strong people, as they had to be able to pull back a 100 lb bowstring and hold it while aiming and waiting for the call to let fly--and they had to do this dozens of times in a row. If you weren't strong, you weren't pulling that bow string.

Anyway, as far as game balance is concerned, it works pretty well as it is. If you want to add more strength to get damage, you are losing dexterity and thus losing evasion and accuracy if you have to switch to melee for whatever reason. It's a fair trade. I kind of dislike games where archers get accuracy, damage, AND evasion all from one stat, because they become on-stat monsters with no need to think at all.

Darklord wrote:Also why does the missile weapons skill increase Dex, since it's actually of no use what so ever with them? Perhaps it should be changed to strength?

Well, I tried to explain it in my previous post
Dex bonuses are there so that the skill would be more than just a flat one dimensional bonus to damage. That is,the dex upgrades give advantages that are not directly related to the weapon class. Other example is Swords skill which increases Health for instance.

I suppose you're right, Dalton. My OCD will keep bothering me about it, but it's no game breaker.

petri wrote:

Darklord wrote:Also why does the missile weapons skill increase Dex, since it's actually of no use what so ever with them? Perhaps it should be changed to strength?

Well, I tried to explain it in my previous post
Dex bonuses are there so that the skill would be more than just a flat one dimensional bonus to damage. That is,the dex upgrades give advantages that are not directly related to the weapon class. Other example is Swords skill which increases Health for instance.

But doesn't that make bows less viable than throwing weapons, because throwing skill increases strength, which is much, MUCH more desired for a ranged attacker than dex. Or how is this difference contemplated?

As I posted earlier, launcher weapons deal over twice the damage of thrown weapons. Getting all 50 points in the throwing tree will only give +5 strength in total, which will still not make throwing weapons anywhere near comparable in damage output, especially when you factor in monster armor.

I can't give exact figures, and I honestly don't care to either. But in general, against low-armor enemies, my rogue does 2-3 times as much damage with a crossbow as she does with shurikens. Against high armor enemies, they almost entirely absorb the shuriken damage, and she ends up doing more like 4-5 times as much damage with the bow.

Honestly, there's nothing to complain about with launcher weapons. It's the most reliable damage you can get outside of magic because it's huge, it's consistent, and it doesn't miss.

That's good to know. Thanks.

petri wrote: Well, I tried to explain it in my previous post
Dex bonuses are there so that the skill would be more than just a flat one dimensional bonus to damage. That is,the dex upgrades give advantages that are not directly related to the weapon class. Other example is Swords skill which increases Health for instance.

Got you now, thanks for replying!

Daniel.

Dalton wrote:I can't give exact figures, and I honestly don't care to either. But in general, against low-armor enemies, my rogue does 2-3 times as much damage with a crossbow as she does with shurikens. Against high armor enemies, they almost entirely absorb the shuriken damage, and she ends up doing more like 4-5 times as much damage with the bow.

That is interesting, seems like bows are the way to go for damage then, despite the missile weapon skill being more flavourful. My back row Rogue is currently using Shurikens with a Spear for when she runs out, which seems to work reasonably well, I wish I'd upped her Dex though for using that Spear! (She's a Minotaur so Dex 6)

Daniel.