Grimrock

badhabit wrote:You could try to do tests, I did and found strange behaviour & was able to reproduce a "apply-button" not reachable situation.

Oh please! Do i really need to repeat that you found this "strange behavior" by setting the resolution below the minimum system requirement of 1024x768? If anybody wants to go lower resolutions like 800x600 he/she can manually edit them into the LoG config file but then they should not complain about "strange behaviors".

When we're talking about improvements: when LoG is put in window mode it would be nice when the user could define it's personal size (and placement) by stretching it to their desire. The aspect ratio should be kept all the time; replace resolution with aspect ratio in Options menu for windowed mode. Still: a definate minimum window size should not be undershot.

badhabit wrote:Also, I (and others) encountered this problem myself and reported strange resizing and scaling behaviour back to the vanilla version 1.13. It's a long standing issue (other reports: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=498 viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2620 ).

Regarding Eyefinitiy: not even all the large-publisher games (even their best selling titles) support those resolution imitators fully and/or correctly and you expect this from an indie-game?

Dr.Disaster wrote:

badhabit wrote:You could try to do tests, I did and found strange behaviour & was able to reproduce a "apply-button" not reachable situation.

Oh please! Do i really need to repeat that you found this "strange behavior" by setting the resolution below the minimum system requirement of 1024x768? If anybody wants to go lower resolutions like 800x600 he/she can manually edit them into the LoG config file but then they should not complain about "strange behaviors".

When we're talking about improvements: when LoG is put in window mode it would be nice when the user could define it's personal size (and placement) by stretching it to their desire. The aspect ratio should be kept all the time; replace resolution with aspect ratio in Options menu for windowed mode. Still: a definate minimum window size should not be undershot.

badhabit wrote:Also, I (and others) encountered this problem myself and reported strange resizing and scaling behaviour back to the vanilla version 1.13. It's a long standing issue (other reports: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=498 viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2620 ).

Regarding Eyefinitiy: not even all the large-publisher games (even their best selling titles) support those resolution imitators fully and/or correctly and you expect this from an indie-game?

As the OT pointed out: the failure of scaling is arising in case of multimonitor setup and as I pointed out also in case of phyiscal to window size mismatches what I relate to a mis-formulated scaling algorithm, a BUG. And again, to have a window size (in a approved resolution, 1024x768) bigger than the physical size is completly valid and can be set. Try it with some proper written game (not with LOG). Also, this should be the simplest case to program&support, really, nothing to take into consideration or to detect beside the window size which is given by user, the rest is done by the OS!

PLEASE stop now defending bugs and bad code! Being Indie with limited ressources is NOT a acceptable excuse here as this is really simple basic stuff... and not more than 2-3 lines of code to change.

PS: I agree that pseudo-fullscreen mode is missing too
PPS: here is another report of "not-reachable apply button" viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4456&start=50#p47129

PPS: another example this time phyiscal AND window size >= 1024 x 768
physical: 1360x768, window: 1280x1024.png -> loading screen mis-centered, option menu cut off


another test:
1024 x 1600 in physical 1360x768
start up situation: window starts not centered, but grimrock is centered according to the physical screen

moved window down: Y size is NOT 1600 (seems 768) while it seems to be scaled to that size, leading to messed up the centering?


grimrock seems to limit a selected window size on creation according to a detected physicalWindowSize but still centers and scales according to the orginal given window sizes. Remove this clipping/check shoudl be the solution for single monitor. On multimonitor setups something even more funky seems to happen.

1224x 600 on physical 1920x1080
in-game work great, everything seems well scaled and centered, only the option menu seems unscaled and the apply button is therefore unreachable (if only the return key would be bound to "apply" like the esc-key is to "cancel")

badhabit wrote:PLEASE stop now defending bugs and bad code! Being Indie with limited ressources is NOT a acceptable excuse here as this is really simple basic stuff... and not more than 2-3 lines of code to change.

You call it bad code. I call it stuff no sane person would try i.e. placing over-sized 4:3 ratio windows on a 16:9 ratio display.

badhabit wrote:PPS: here is another report of "not-reachable apply button" viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4456&start=50#p47129

This "report" only states that the Options menu is unusable. It does not give any details beside this statement. There is no word about a missing apply button in it.

badhabit wrote:PPS: another example this time phyiscal AND window size >= 1024 x 768

Why more tests on opening windows with one axis forced to be larger then the display reporting to support?

The real question to ask is what should an OS do when it receives a request to open a window with one axis being larger than the display's resolution? The correct answer is to deny such requests but no OS known to me delivers this. Instead the requested window is created, but cut down in size so it does not overshot screen edges.

My impression is that LoG hits exactly this OS-bug. It tells the OS to open a window with the requested size but the OS denies any axis to be larger then the current display resolution. After that LoG just centeres it's hopefully correctly sized window on screen. In case the OS did not create the window with the requested size you get results like those you just posted.


btw, just in case you did not notice it yet: LoG's Options menu never scales.
It's height is fixed because it's designed to look the way it looks. Changing it to scalable will require a re-design.

In addition: this discussion adds nothing to solve OT's scaling problem. None of LoG's reported "strange scaling conditions" explain the games zoom behavior on OT's system.

Dr.Disaster wrote:

badhabit wrote:PLEASE stop now defending bugs and bad code! Being Indie with limited ressources is NOT a acceptable excuse here as this is really simple basic stuff... and not more than 2-3 lines of code to change.

You call it bad code. I call it stuff no sane person would try i.e. placing over-sized 4:3 ratio windows on a 16:9 ratio display.

I can safely assume you are not programmer and therefore seems to have no expoerience in debugging and creating test cases.
Also, for the XXXX time this stuff is useful and needed for general multimonitor support it's just a "viewport" which one can place in the space created by multiple monitors. It's completly OK and correctly handled by OS, graphic card and driver. Just LoG made it wrong.

Dr.Disaster wrote:

badhabit wrote:PPS: here is another report of "not-reachable apply button" viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4456&start=50#p47129

This "report" only states that the Options menu is unusable. It does not give any details beside this statement. There is no word about a missing apply button in it.

What a weak argument. *hand-over-some-vitamins-to-argument-weakling* "Come back when your are grown up!"

Dr.Disaster wrote:

badhabit wrote:PPS: another example this time phyiscal AND window size >= 1024 x 768

Why more tests on opening windows with one axis forced to be larger then the display reporting to support?

Because you was keeping crying about "OHHH you are outside the specification your fault" I'm inside the specification (even more restrictive than written down), so what now?

Dr.Disaster wrote: The real question to ask is what should an OS do when it receives a request to open a window with one axis being larger than the display's resolution? The correct answer is to deny such requests but no OS known to me delivers this. Instead the requested window is created, but cut down in size so it does not overshot screen edges.

My impression is that LoG hits exactly this OS-bug. It tells the OS to open a window with the requested size but the OS denies any axis to be larger then the current display resolution. After that LoG just centeres it's hopefully correctly sized window on screen. In case the OS did not create the window with the requested size you get results like those you just posted.

*Wow* that I call lunatic. you assume a OS bug in a billion $ dollar operation system which has matured for years is more likly than a bug in application?
Just checked it, FTL game which has a minimum reuqirement of 1280×720 (http://www.ftlgame.com/?page_id=192#reqs) is handled right in windowed mode correctly even down to 800x600. Window is not miscentered and has the right size, no problem.

Dr.Disaster wrote: btw, just in case you did not notice it yet: LoG's Options menu never scales.
It's height is fixed because it's designed to look the way it looks. Changing it to scalable will require a re-design.

In addition: this discussion adds nothing to solve OT's scaling problem. None of LoG's reported "strange scaling conditions" explain the games zoom behavior on OT's system.

Yeah, thats seems part of the problem and will become a readability problem on high enough resolutions and with enough monitors.
Again, obviously you are not programmer and therefore unable to see the connection in the screen handling code. Please, don't continue.

And to AH: Please, Petri, I beg you in the name of all what is good and holy for programers, fix this da...ed rendering & scaling code so that this can finally end! PLEASSSSE, this code piece fall short in comparision with the rest of LoG, is a pain for every rightous programer & all the demoscenerz droop... My fingers are itching, wants to fix it myself *argghHHHH* Don't let me start with debugging and binary hacking on poor LoG!

badhabit wrote:

Dr.Disaster wrote: The real question to ask is what should an OS do when it receives a request to open a window with one axis being larger than the display's resolution? The correct answer is to deny such requests but no OS known to me delivers this. Instead the requested window is created, but cut down in size so it does not overshot screen edges.

My impression is that LoG hits exactly this OS-bug. It tells the OS to open a window with the requested size but the OS denies any axis to be larger then the current display resolution. After that LoG just centeres it's hopefully correctly sized window on screen. In case the OS did not create the window with the requested size you get results like those you just posted.

*Wow* that I call lunatic. you assume a OS bug in a billion $ dollar operation system which has matured for years is more likly than a bug in application?

Heh now that's funny! As if money alone could create a good product. Good one

Oh and since you associated "matured" with "OS": this is a term i would use only for very few OS's out there. Definately never for a brainchild of Gates or Jobs.

Again, obviously you are not programmer and therefore unable to see the connection in the screen handling code.

Being a programmer is no requirement to debug stuff and i think AH will welcome any input we can give.

Ok, been off for a while now and didn't know it started a heated debate.

Here are my specs:
i7 3930K
X79 Sabertooth
32Gig Ram
2xGTX680 in SLI
11 TB Drive space.
3 monitors, 40" 1080p Samsung, 27" 1440p Asus, 27" 1080p Asus.

I had finally found a resolution in the cfg file that actually works well on all my screens which I posted earlier. I have since set the middle monitor to 1080p so the all are the same resolution. That really has no effect though.

As badhabit mentioned, this only occurs with LOG. I have never played any game or ran any program on this system that behaved like this. I myself prefer to play many games in Windowed mode. I don't play all games in windowed, just some of them. Especially dungeon crawlers. How you want to play games is your business. I play LOG in windowed mode so I can move the window to another monitor when I pause it to do other things. I think it is called multi-tasking. This is how I play the majority of my games. I do quite well playing games this way.

BTW, I have disabled and uninstalled all the 3d software and nothing changed. Disabled the SLI, removed all but one monitor and nothing changed.

I think badhabit has it right in that it is the programming. Since I am not a programmer, I only know what works and what doesn't. LOG is the only game that I play or have played that does this.

I am running version 1.3.6 but there is 1.3.7 out now. Just not on GOG so I have to wait for it and hope this is fixed.

For the last month I have been playing custom dungeons and decided to change my windows themes and when I started LOG, the screen shrank. I had to change the settings in the program to 1920x1080 to get a full screen. I tried several other games and they never changed from the last time I played them.
This is even stranger. How can changing the windows theme effect LOG? It doesn't affect any other games, only LOG.
When I get home tonight, I will change the theme back to what I had in the first place and see if I have to use my strange resolution of 1270x710 to get a full screen. If it does, I will just stick with the current theme.
I will let you guys know.

1.3.7's change log states that a bug was fixed where the LoG window has

an incorrect size when using non-default Windows DPI scaling settings

Perhaps that's your zoom effect?

Dr.Disaster wrote:1.3.7's change log states that a bug was fixed where the LoG window has

an incorrect size when using non-default Windows DPI scaling settings

Perhaps that's your zoom effect?

I hope so. I'll have to wait until it gets on GOG.

Well, I finally installed the patch and seems like it is working, somewhat. When I set the Resolutions in the Options menu to 1920x1080, I have a mostly full screen but cannot see the very bottom where the version is. It is cut off.
I went into the grimrock.cfg file and set the resolution to 1920x1050 instead of 1920x1080 to be able to see everything.

Here is the weird part, As soon as I do, and restart the game, I checked the Resolution in the Options menu and it now shows 1024x768.
What is up with that? Oh well, at least it is working and I can play.

BarryBGB wrote:Here is the weird part, As soon as I do, and restart the game, I checked the Resolution in the Options menu and it now shows 1024x768.
What is up with that? Oh well, at least it is working and I can play.

The options menu will only list resolutions of certain aspect ratios (4:3, 16:9, 16:10). If by editing the config file you can get a result that you're happy with, then you should be a-ok.