I'm all for more diversity in creature AI, but eliminating the ability to move around your enemies totally defeats the appeal of this type of combat. There's a bit of a disconnect that players have with this being a tile-based game with puzzles, they expect the combat to be turn-based perhaps, or they don't expect dexterity to be a component. But that's exactly what I always loved about this genre, the mixture of styles, the ability to have cerebral puzzles next to fun combat. Standing in front of a mob and bashing it repeatedly is not my idea of fun, I'd much rather use the environment to my advantage, and use the creature's behaviour against it.
Having said that, some of the suggests are quite good. In Dungeon Master and EotB, monster AI rarely if ever dealt with strafing, but in Grimrock the devs have clearly tried to spice it up a bit, and I think they've done a great job in balancing it. Without going into spoilers, you have very fast enemies, very slow ones, enemies that side-step, even enemies that open gates, all tactics to try and defeat "routine". Of course I'd still be happy to see a greater diversity of behaviour and "anti-strafing" traits used in the future. Enemies that can melee you at range (whipping tentacles), enemies that can freeze you into place briefly, enemies that damage you if you look straight at their eyes (beholders, anyone?), enemies that can whip their tails to hit rogue's trying to backstab, enemies that generate electrical fields and shock anything within a 1-2 square range around them (with a suitable warning so you can get out of the way). Just a few examples, I could go on! That's what should be done to further spice up combat, not try and change the basic mechanics that make it fun in the first place.
2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]
Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building
Not everything presented by the OP is good stuff... however there are some things that aren't so bad... I do like the "gettinggrabbed by tentacle thing" and if you move away, it's instant death as that party member gets swallowed down in the sewers below...
I wouldn't mind enemies with some form of aoe attack... so 3 targets in front of em or dmging everything in a 3x3 grid etc...
I wouldn't mind enemies with some form of aoe attack... so 3 targets in front of em or dmging everything in a 3x3 grid etc...
Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building
Yeah, I agree. I can perfectly understand why some people wouldn't like the current combat system, but I like it. I find that choosing how and where to fight an enemy is part of the battle, finding a way to separate one monster from the other so you don't get cornered, taking steps backwards down a hall while shooting arrows (and then taking a wrong turn and getting stuck in a dead endatngnd wrote:I for one like the current system just fine.
Perhaps AH can implement some more exotic attack types for the new monsters in LoG 2 or whatever the sequel is going to be called. But the basic system is fine.
Yes, circle strafing may seem like cheating, but it is IMO a lot more fair than having to redo hours of gameplay from an earlier save just because you happened to pick the wrong stats to spend your experience points on. Besides, with more than one mob circle strafing isn't as simple as it seems. There's also often not enough space to do it, although you can lure enemies to a place where you have enough room for it. But that's precisely the kind of strategy that I like.
), well, I like that too. For me, the strafing around a monster doesn't feel like cheating, specially as I do get hit anyway 
, plus the whole getting surprised by other enemies thing. I agree there could be more variation, enemies that behave differently, but I don't like the idea of changing how the fighting works fundamentally. Nothing against turn based fighting, but I consider it to be a completelly different type of game, and making the fighting turn based would completely ruin it for me (sorry for the drama 
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sapientCrow
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Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building
It would seem to me the entire battle system and dungeon mechanic is understanding the grid in general and timing movement on it.
I know even my tank Minotaur could not toe to toe an ogre and that makes sense.
Cross or diagonal attacks would then have to factor how our party would be able to do the same thing hence removing the grid system which is essentially what this old school/new school game is designed around.
Armor and defensive capabilities are for the few swings the enemies get off when your timing is off.
I do not mind the system.
If they did in fact decide to renovate the system it would be a redo with a lot of new gears adding resistances and armor bonuses and also a tweak on the grid system in general.
This is how the old skool dungeon crawlers were. Of course the pathetic timing in the old games compared to the new precision does make strafing a lot easier.
I know even my tank Minotaur could not toe to toe an ogre and that makes sense.
Cross or diagonal attacks would then have to factor how our party would be able to do the same thing hence removing the grid system which is essentially what this old school/new school game is designed around.
Armor and defensive capabilities are for the few swings the enemies get off when your timing is off.
I do not mind the system.
If they did in fact decide to renovate the system it would be a redo with a lot of new gears adding resistances and armor bonuses and also a tweak on the grid system in general.
This is how the old skool dungeon crawlers were. Of course the pathetic timing in the old games compared to the new precision does make strafing a lot easier.
Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building
I think movement should be slowed slightly when you are next to a creature. I suggested that on pretty much the first day after release, so I hope they do it. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1658&start=20#p17478
I suppose we could always play on easy and not dodge as much.
The problem is they have probably play tested it for months, so if they even just slow down movement they will have to play test every monster and adjust them so you can still win.
I suppose we could always play on easy and not dodge as much.
The problem is they have probably play tested it for months, so if they even just slow down movement they will have to play test every monster and adjust them so you can still win.
Last edited by Spathi on Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building
OP is total crap. Please go play other games and leave this one alone.
Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building
It is a bit convoluted and confused, but no reason to get all homo about a game.
Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building
No reason to get all defensive either, I mean: if you're sharing some ideas on a forum, part of the deal is to be willing to read in response "this is crap" and well, it is, in this particular case, IMO. No big deal. W/e.
Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building
It is an offensive comment and an attack, so I gave it back to you, to show you how it feels.
What you need to provide is constructive criticism of ideas, not dismissive bs.
Explain why you want to leave the game so easy that you don't need any stats for almost every encounter? Explain why you want to dance around 95% of the critters for so long?
One reason is you might consider most creatures XP, but this could be just as easily done (and more quickly) by letting the creatures fight back with less power, but some chance to hit.
The only "crap" in the OP is how would the devs put graphics in for some of the suggestions without doing too much work. For instance, rather then grabbing one of the characters the tentacle monster could have a xx% chance of grabbing a weapon (that you get back when it is dead), and an xx% chance of hitting you if you back away. As it stands it is just free XP as are most of the critters.
What you need to provide is constructive criticism of ideas, not dismissive bs.
Explain why you want to leave the game so easy that you don't need any stats for almost every encounter? Explain why you want to dance around 95% of the critters for so long?
One reason is you might consider most creatures XP, but this could be just as easily done (and more quickly) by letting the creatures fight back with less power, but some chance to hit.
The only "crap" in the OP is how would the devs put graphics in for some of the suggestions without doing too much work. For instance, rather then grabbing one of the characters the tentacle monster could have a xx% chance of grabbing a weapon (that you get back when it is dead), and an xx% chance of hitting you if you back away. As it stands it is just free XP as are most of the critters.
Re: 2x2 strafing undermines character building
Being dismissive about the idea IS constructive, in the sense I don't want to see this happen at all. I'm a fan too, and as such, I have a right to point out when I don't like this or that idea, however I want to. Getting your panties in a twist over it is your own doing, not mine. Cheers.