Grimrock

krayzkrok wrote:Um, is something being lost in the translation there? It may be that he actually means it in a complimentary manner, nuances lost by Google Translate. Otherwise, if LoG is a shameless copy, where does that leave Eye of the Beholder, Lands of Lore, Captive, and dozens of other games directly influenced by Dungeon Master? There's no shame in homage or inspiration, especially when it improves upon the formula.

The german word he uses is "dreist" which can be translated as bold, audacious, impudent or shameless. He means it in a negative way.
Here is a list of possible translations:
http://www.dict.cc/deutsch-englisch/dreist.html

7.5 out of 10 isn't bad anyhow.

Daniel.

Sigh! I wish it had been a A shameless copy of DM, I would love to play that game again with today's graphics and sound..........sigh!

Bah, a poorly researched (i.e. not at all) and lazily written article it seems Even aside from the array of improvements that LoG makes to the "formula" of DM, EOTB etc. - it's so damn long since those games were released, it's almost irrelevant. Plus, AH have publicly reported excellent sales numbers, and sites like RockPaperShotgun absolutely love it - which is where I found out about the game, and one of the biggest gaming blogs in the world right now. We can just hope that this article doesn't have too much influence, or that people who read it go elsewhere for a second opinion. Given the number of positive opinions out there, I think they'd be unlucky to find two bad ones from their chosen sources

The XP system from one side and D&D rules from the other side make LoG different from DM or EotB. But to me, playing LoG and replaying EotB at the same time (I am Even in the same levels...very curious) I can say the simmilarities with EotB coud have be a most accurate comparison.

But i do not consider LoG a "shameless" copy of DM or EotB. It is not a clone it has personality and I do not talk about if it is a good or a bad thing, simply it is not a shameless copy as the review say.

Alfheira wrote:

krayzkrok wrote:Um, is something being lost in the translation there? It may be that he actually means it in a complimentary manner, nuances lost by Google Translate. Otherwise, if LoG is a shameless copy, where does that leave Eye of the Beholder, Lands of Lore, Captive, and dozens of other games directly influenced by Dungeon Master? There's no shame in homage or inspiration, especially when it improves upon the formula.

The german word he uses is "dreist" which can be translated as bold, audacious, impudent or shameless. He means it in a negative way.
Here is a list of possible translations:
http://www.dict.cc/deutsch-englisch/dreist.html

I'm not sure 'bold' or 'audacious' are implicitly especially negative....

I don't think LOG is a copy, is a brilliant and long overdue reimagining of a classic genre - DM was the first but it inspired many other excellent games, from its own sequel to EOB, Captive and all the multitudinous rest. The genre has been effectivly dead for many years (pretty much every RPG now is full 360 3D or a Final Fantasy style, with a few SNES style things thrown in for good measure by fans) except for fans porting the classics and a few little shareware/freeware things & phone apps.

AH had a love for the genre and realised that a lot of us out there do too, and that we were starving for a new game. W000000t!

There are no words to describe how I feel when playing LoG. Shameless? Give me a break! This is DM 2012 and I absolutely LOVE it!!! They clearly stated that this is an homage and they have done a superb job capturing the old DM feel while adding other elements that are new and fresh. DM may have started it all, but this has taken that classic to an ENTIRELY new level!

Suffice it to say I'm only on floor level 2 but I'm already MADLY addicted!!!

The site is known for having a history in giving Indie games lower scores (in a range from 1-1.5) relative to AAA productions (mostly advertisement driven site). I remember a passionate discussion about the LoG review because they initially rated the game with a 7, based on the practice mentioned above and several faults in their review.

It was poorly researched, aspects which were critisised in LoG weren't in other games like Diablo III, they encountered several supposed dead ends where they weren't able to find the solution(s), they ditched the graphics quality due to their lack of technical background, the chief editor didn't want to give a higher rating to a copy of DM done by a bunch of people. In comparison Duke Nuke Forever got a 8.5, so, who cares...

That reviewer (and his editor for allowing such dumb statements to be released) is a moron.

By that logic, all games to come out in whatever genre is a shameless copy of a classic.

LoG is obviously a Dungeon Master "homage", not an EotB one.

The elements (like switches and teleports) are right out of DM as is the style of the puzzles. I think that is perfectly fine as they are all original. If anything I would call LoG something like another (bigger) Chaos Strikes Back and as FTL won't make any more addons/sequels we should just be thankful.

EotB on the other hand was rather a shameless copy of DM. It never came close to DM when it comes to puzzles, as there are not nearly as many and some are even taken from DM directly. It enhanced some aspects, but felt not even closely as thought out as DM (or LoG).

P.S. "dreist" is pretty negative, it can have a slightly positive meaning of "accomplishing something the easy way being successful with it, the result can stil be good". But I don't see the LoG team took an easy route with this.

P.S. The original review of Dungeon Master by Heinrich Lenhard: http://www.kultboy.com/index.php?site=t&id=324
On his twitter account he actually recommends LoG for people who liked DM and EotB