Grimrock

zespi wrote:Guys, I maybe missing the point, but what BRR guys are going to do damage with? The first few levels there are no missile weapons and just a few (1-2) thrown daggers. Where the damage comes from???

Shurikens, throwing knives, and rocks for the thrower. Anything available for the missile guy, until he gets a sling, then a bow. You don't need much damage early levels.

King Tulla wrote:You may be exactly right on that account friend. Just looked a little, and yeah- seems you are spot on buddy! The Fist Fighter thing is valid, only to level that and not dodge (only to get Evasion +5). Part of my setup is as much for flavor I guess, so in retrospect I guess one of the best setups would be 2 Fist Fighting FRR. Will get around to adding your input in buddy; THANKS Notger!

One of the FRR will be grabbing the Lurker gear. So the double evasion bonus from Improved Stealth (dodge 24) looks pretty sweet. The other FRR guy will probably be wearing chitin, which requires light armor (dodge 17) to avoid evasion penalties. Possibly, both of these considerations are moot, as fist fighting bonuses may rule even so. Just something to keep in mind when doing the math.

My fist figther ended last game with 124 evasion. I may have missed some, but it was certainly "good enough". Now I think I'm going to play through again, with some other variation on the "all rogue" theme. Lots of fun.

Saw a video on youtube with 4 fist fighting mino-rogues.

Presumably front 2 got dodge skill for armor / defense, along with fist fighting.
Back 2 got assassination for back row reach, and fist fighting.

Seemed kind of broken.

Just finished a run with 1xFighter and 3xRogues. Best party I've ever played. Could work just as easily with a 4th Rogue. Was done in under 5h and I didn't skip anything.

Specs were sword, unarmed, missile, missile. Front row were lizardmen with maxed dex, second row minos. Kept evade high on both frontliners. Back row wore the heaviest armor possible. Managed to do fighter's challenge without any deaths (by retreating in the shield area, front row wasn't getting hit at all).

The party was strong at all levels and didn't start slowly at all. Who knew rocks could do so much damage?

My rogue party consisted of 4 minotaurs with maxed out strength and remaining points into dex, including whatever trait gave the most attack power + 'skilled' per respective 'role' between unarmed, daggers, throwing, ranged for traits (my headhunter was thrown). Why would you ever waste points in trying to dodge when you can sidestep? You can't dodge spells so I'm assuming you're already sidestepping those. Also putting points in unarmed/daggers gives it accuracy so you don't need dex for that. For the few times that you are forced to fight a monster in a corner you always have guaranteed attacks (ranged/thrown) that will often stagger your opponent giving your front row enough time to recharge. There's also a TON of healing in the game, just make sure you have healing potions always made and be ready to use them.
My front row still ended up with 60 evasion on my daggers and 80 on my unarmed because they can still use shields.

tl;dr Minotaur best attacker in the game, no other race is required. Max strength always. Skill offensive stats always. Taking too much damage? Chug potions and learn to sidestep more and rest often in a known safe location. Food is never a problem unless you get lost often/not using auto map.

I don't think that strength is worth taking over dex for frontliners. The returns on str are very very poor (0.5 attack power per point) compared with 1 accuracy/2 evade/lots of extra shock and fire protection per pt. of dex (useful even though you dodge most things).

Even if you don't care about any defense I'll take extra accuracy over extra damage if using melee skills.

Just ended the game with my rogue party Good luck to you.

Chiller wrote:I don't think that strength is worth taking over dex for frontliners. The returns on str are very very poor (0.5 attack power per point) compared with 1 accuracy/2 evade/lots of extra shock and fire protection per pt. of dex (useful even though you dodge most things).

Even if you don't care about any defense I'll take extra accuracy over extra damage if using melee skills.

I had no problems hitting anything in the first few levels, obviously I missed some attacks because I'm only a couple levels in, and with level gains pumping everything into only offensive stats my accuracy never suffered. There wasn't a single point in the game where I had problems killing anything because 'I wasn't hitting it'. Honestly I have never had a problem with resisting anything either, the only spells that really hit me are frost from the wraiths at the end because it acts a little funny and hits faster than their other spells do and the occasional fireball from the Uggardians because I accidentally stepped wrong. I'll gladly take the extra bit of damage at the start and even more damage at the end game. Evasion is also a non-factor, sidestep = 100% evasion.

I just finished with 4-rogue party (my 2nd run) on hard and it was way easier than with my first party (on normal, with mage, 2xfighter and a rogue).

I had one dagger rogue (17 dodge, rest in daggers, chitin set), one unarmed (50 to unarmed, lurker set), minotaur thrower (damn, these axes do brutal dmg, 50 throwing, headhunter) and human missle rogue (to get 50 point sooner than mino - but mino was way better).
If I played again, I'd use two throwers (or thrower and missle, but def. two minos) in a back row and I'd probably swap one rogue for a sword fighter (with chitin set).

i used this setup also and the game was pretty easy cakes.

i got my front row to 34 dodge each, and then dumped the rest of their points into their repsective fighting skills, which i think topped them out at 22? i cant remember. i just know they each had the second ability from their attack skill.

the back row, i think i had both of their weapon skills to 36, and had them each get enough dodge to earn light armor proficiency. i killed most everything in the game within 3 attack cycles or less by the time i hit level 6. even the guardians on level 10, while they had their shield up, they were difficult, but after i wore it down, they died usually within 1 round.