Stop import characters

[Azel]

that would be true if leveling up monsters made them harder, which it doesn't

A Level 2 Twigroot with 150 hitpoints is harder to kill than a Level 1 Twigroot with 150 hitpoints. You often state that increasing monster levels doesn't make them "harder" ... but I think it's more of a personal issue you have with the effect of monster levels in Grimrock. I am not sure what you are comparing it too though, since just about every RPG I have ever played makes monsters harder by increasing their armor and hitpoints.

[Isaac]

It's not too difficult to examine the party at load, and upon not finding a level 1 group, bump up the entire dungeon commensurately for an experienced party.

that would be true if leveling up monsters made them harder, which it doesn't

That's a shame.

One could also spawn 33% more enemies ~in the appropriate places.

[akroma222]

that would be true if leveling up monsters made them harder, which it doesn't

A Level 2 Twigroot with 150 hitpoints is harder to kill than a Level 1 Twigroot with 150 hitpoints. You often state that increasing monster levels doesn't make them "harder" ... but I think it's more of a personal issue you have with the effect of monster levels in Grimrock. I am not sure what you are comparing it too though, since just about every RPG I have ever played makes monsters harder by increasing their armor and hitpoints.

It does make them a little tougher... Difficulty level, however, makes them more aggressive and direct
(shorter cooldowns too??) - Always play on HARD
Making the monsters last longer can make fights trickier... it depends on many things though
I think the hardest fights are where you are pitted against monsters with different styles /attacks/resistances etc
The LoG2 monster roster was refreshing, but still,
a lot of us have been modding Grimrock to the point where asset pack monster difficulty just isnt an issue anymore

Oh dear, I am way off topic, apologies!!

Just my opinion, Ive always felt starting a game with a party thats already leveled and armed to the teeth is a bit, too easy (and possibly boring?)

[minmay]

that would be true if leveling up monsters made them harder, which it doesn't

A Level 2 Twigroot with 150 hitpoints is harder to kill than a Level 1 Twigroot with 150 hitpoints. You often state that increasing monster levels doesn't make them "harder" ... but I think it's more of a personal issue you have with the effect of monster levels in Grimrock. I am not sure what you are comparing it too though, since just about every RPG I have ever played makes monsters harder by increasing their armor and hitpoints.

i am comparing it to something that makes monsters harder instead of making them take longer to kill
i would have no problem with increasing twigroot damage to make them harder if players would ever take that damage in the first place (outside of making a trap to force the players to be cornered), but they won't, this game's default AI gives you such ridiculously fine control over monster actions. if monster levels gave you less control over monster actions or maybe even just made them faster in addition to changing their stats, i would be cool with them, but as is they are, at best, a very transparent bid to prolong gameplay rather than intensify it. ofc i consider player level largely irrelevant to difficulty as well for the same reason
and while it isn't terribly hard to make new ai and faster versions of existing monster animations that still look ok, you can't exactly automate it, let alone automate tacking it onto an existing dungeon

[Isaac]

... this game's default AI gives you such ridiculously fine control over monster actions.

That sounds like a project.

An AI mod for the ORRR3, that tweaks the default monsters that are used; to add some quite unexpected behavior to some or all them.

[akroma222]

... this game's default AI gives you such ridiculously fine control over monster actions.

That sounds like a project.

An AI mod for the ORRR3, that tweaks the default monsters that are used; to add some quite unexpected behavior to some or all them.

It's very doable! I am working on a few monster AIs, some original and also a couple of new critters (not ready for show and tell yet)
There is so much we can do now (with LoG2 systems)...
you guys are spot on though, we need to make some critters with new and imaginative combat patterns and attacks
so that we dont have that feeling of control

[Azel]

Well ya know, I stand corrected! Even in cookie cutter online RPG's like DAOC, SWTOR, WoW, etc... they would take the tiny rat you fought in the newbie zone, and make him fill up half your screen at the mid-game areas; but they were not only tougher and had more hitpoints, they also could be faster, definitely hit harder, and often gained a new ability or two.

After reading the responses in this thread I remembered a recent update to Clash of Clans where the game actually boosts up the AI of troops as you research their higher levels. So Level 1 Archers are kinda dumb where Level 5+ are much smarter with their automatic functions.

I am new to Modding completely, and I think that Grimrock has sort of forced me in to the routine where I must decide on whether to increase hitpoints, levels, or both in order to make sure that a high-level import party can't just one-shot-kill everything in my Mod.

Luckily I have conjured up some fun and creative ways to make monster battles unique (like the Wall of Death), but I am still trying to finalize more creative ways to make monster encounters memorable for the final release of my Mod. Although, it would be damn nice if every so often I can make life a tiny bit easier by just assigning "Level 5" to a Monster and knowing that this, all by itself, will create a new type battle experience.

[akroma222]

I am new to Modding completely, and I think that Grimrock has sort of forced me in to the routine where I must decide on whether to increase hitpoints, levels, or both in order to make sure that a high-level import party can't just one-shot-kill everything in my Mod.

I wouldnt worry yourself with that Azel...
You wont be able to enjoy creating a mod if you are going to second guess yourself
Worrying about catering for high level import parties is no good (imho - and totally biased as well)
If people want to bring a nuke to a knife fight then let them!!
Personally I love starting a game from scratch...
but I do know people get attached to their characters, their stories and triumphs etc
Anyways, Id meekly suggest focus on either a mod for a beginner party OR a mod for an import

Rrrm seems like the right place to ask... is there a simple way to ensure that an asset pack Class is NOT included in Character Gen screen??
I know we can do this in game as we start... I also know I can redefine a Class to something else and disguise it...
But I really dont want the hard coded, food eating, EXP gaining effect of the Farmer around anymore....

[Azel]

Yeah I am one of those players who gets super attached to my party lol

The good thing about my self-imposed dilemma is that it has forced me to look at the Grimrock monsters in new and creative ways. As you said, I didn't want to discourage the fun from creating a Mod, so I instead focus on making unique things happen. For example, I built a small Pressure Plate function that, when stepped on, gives players 10 minutes of underwater breathing time, and I also gave a handful of monsters the underwater trait, to help create a slightly new way to experience "dungeon crawling" in the form of ... "water stroking" ??

[minmay]

Rrrm seems like the right place to ask... is there a simple way to ensure that an asset pack Class is NOT included in Character Gen screen??

Yes, just don't define it: don't import assets/scripts/char_classes.lua. However starting with a party that uses a nonexistent class (which will include the default party if you exclude fighter, barbarian, alchemist, or wizard) will crash.

But I really dont want the hard coded, food eating, EXP gaining effect of the Farmer around anymore....

This only happens if the character actually has the "farmer" trait, you can just set the class to something else to get rid of it.