Grimrock

1varangian wrote: ..
And all of the above will be made even more rewarding by a system that can punish you for a bad move. Some enemy that is so fast you can't always outstrafe it would make the combat system more dynamic and interesting.

If there would be game options like "make enemies faster" and "make enemies extra fast", would you be happy? Perhaps the modding editor allows or should allow that. Anyway you can be sure that there vill be hellish variations for expert ramboes.

I myself would not like that the battles would be more tedious than they are now. That is still only one part of this quality game.

1varangian wrote: And all of the above will be made even more rewarding by a system that can punish you for a bad move. Some enemy that is so fast you can't always outstrafe it would make the combat system more dynamic and interesting.

There already are enemies that are faster than you can strafe, and even strong enemies that can attack sideways without having to turn first. This is already there.

1varangian wrote:No one is demanding core mechanics to be changed. Please read the posts through so you know what you are arguing against. We all want to keep the "combat tetris" in. We all want movement and positioning to matter. What we don't want is cheese tactics that make all single enemies utterly pointless unless you are trapped in a dead end hallway.

Excuse me, but who exactly is "we"? I have been following this thread since page one, and it looks very much like you're on your own with your opinion, and everyone else is facepalming.

Besides, a lot of enemy encounters ARE in narrow hallways. And if you fight in a big open space, there are usually at least 3 enemies coming for you.

That said, a bunch of your suggestions are not bad. It just seems to me that your conception about the now is flawed. There already are skeleton archers that strafe away from melee. Uggardians and Goromorgs that try to engage in indirect combat and hide at the other end of hallways and strafe in to get a hit on you. Scavangers that swarm you and surround you quickly. Spiders that (somewhat) lurk in the dark and tend to attack you from behind. Not to forget about Shrakk Torrs who are just a whole lot faster than you.

PS: I forgot to mention that both the Elder Herder and the Disease Masses (slimes) can attack into any direction around them.

BlueLegion wrote:

1varangian wrote: And all of the above will be made even more rewarding by a system that can punish you for a bad move. Some enemy that is so fast you can't always outstrafe it would make the combat system more dynamic and interesting.

There already are enemies that are faster than you can strafe, and even strong enemies that can attack sideways without having to turn first. This is already there.

1varangian wrote:No one is demanding core mechanics to be changed. Please read the posts through so you know what you are arguing against. We all want to keep the "combat tetris" in. We all want movement and positioning to matter. What we don't want is cheese tactics that make all single enemies utterly pointless unless you are trapped in a dead end hallway.

Excuse me, but who exactly is "we"? I have been following this thread since page one, and it looks very much like you're on your own with your opinion, and everyone else is facepalming.

Besides, a lot of enemy encounters ARE in narrow hallways. And if you fight in a big open space, there are usually at least 3 enemies coming for you.

That said, a bunch of your suggestions are not bad. It just seems to me that your conception about the now is flawed. There already are skeleton archers strafe away from melee. Uggardians and Goromorgs try to engage in indirect combat and hide at the other end of hallways and strafe in to get a hit on you. Scavangers that swarm you and surround you quickly. Spiders that (somewhat) lurk in the dark and tend to attack you from behind. Not to forget about Shrakk Torrs who are just a whole lot faster than you.

PS: I forgot to mention that both the Elder Herder and the Disease Masses (slimes) can attack into any direction around them.

Uggardians, Goromogs, Ogres, Cave Crabs, Ice Lizards, Wardens etc. etc. etc. can all be considered "dangerous". Yet you can dispose of them individually without ever being attacked. That is the core of the issue because kiting them or exploiting doors / charging removes the combat from combat. It just feels lame. And when you encounter monsters in hallways you can always lure them to a 2x2 grid or a doorway anyway and resume exploiting.

Rest assured there is plenty of facepalming at the people who refuse to understand other people don't like the exploits.

The door thing I consider an exploit the 2x2 is not an exploit it was designed that way.

BlueLegion wrote:I have been following this thread since page one, and it looks very much like you're on your own with your opinion, and everyone else is facepalming.

lol wtf

BlueLegion wrote:

1varangian wrote: And all of the above will be made even more rewarding by a system that can punish you for a bad move. Some enemy that is so fast you can't always outstrafe it would make the combat system more dynamic and interesting.

There already are enemies that are faster than you can strafe, and even strong enemies that can attack sideways without having to turn first. This is already there.

1varangian wrote:No one is demanding core mechanics to be changed. Please read the posts through so you know what you are arguing against. We all want to keep the "combat tetris" in. We all want movement and positioning to matter. What we don't want is cheese tactics that make all single enemies utterly pointless unless you are trapped in a dead end hallway.

Excuse me, but who exactly is "we"? I have been following this thread since page one, and it looks very much like you're on your own with your opinion, and everyone else is facepalming.

Besides, a lot of enemy encounters ARE in narrow hallways. And if you fight in a big open space, there are usually at least 3 enemies coming for you.

That said, a bunch of your suggestions are not bad. It just seems to me that your conception about the now is flawed. There already are skeleton archers that strafe away from melee. Uggardians and Goromorgs that try to engage in indirect combat and hide at the other end of hallways and strafe in to get a hit on you. Scavangers that swarm you and surround you quickly. Spiders that (somewhat) lurk in the dark and tend to attack you from behind. Not to forget about Shrakk Torrs who are just a whole lot faster than you.

PS: I forgot to mention that both the Elder Herder and the Disease Masses (slimes) can attack into any direction around them.

Excuse me, but he's not alone in this request. I also think that strafing undermines combat!

Strafing may undermine defensive stats. But in fairness in normal and Hard mode getting hit will get you killed by crabs, ogres, and all other nasty physical hitters. This is usally regardless of what defensive stats your character has. So if you want to make stuff for stopping strafing, then make protection worth it.

I don't think anyone is saying "stop straffing sit in one spot and pound". More... make it more of a challenge by making that mechanic more balanced one way or another.

Spathi wrote:I don't think anyone is saying "stop straffing sit in one spot and pound". More... make it more of a challenge by making that mechanic more balanced one way or another.

Agree.


2x2 dancing basicly makes any thought-out character building - pointless. You can just go with random party, random stats and random skills and win easily due to 2x2 dancing.

It is viable strategy but it shouldnt make most parts of game, character building, useless and pointless.

Whisper wrote: 2x2 dancing basicly makes any thought-out character building - pointless. You can just go with random party, random stats and random skills and win easily due to 2x2 dancing.

Which is precisely how the game is designed. I'm fed up with cRPGs being 90% character building and statistical management. Save that for Football Manager, less is definitely more in a Dungeon Master style game. My one and only gripe about Grimrock is that there are too many visible stats and skills. I would really love to see someone do a game in this style that hides EVERY number and allows you to feel your way through your character as they grow & learn by doing things - with feedback on progress and prowess delivered in other ways than by numbers flying up in mid air or appearing when you mouse over things. We've had the enormous potential of computers for decades now in our roleplaying, to immerse us completely in the gameworld, and yet we still want to see character sheets, and the results of dice rolls everywhere! One of the best things about Dungeon Master that I truly miss is that you learned to be better with specific weapons by using them, and you truly didn't know which weapons or armour were better than others unless you tried them out. Where has this mechanic gone from my roleplaying?