Grimrock

Isaac wrote:The runes in Grimrock seem to derive from Stonekeep; (though they could be independently invented, it still existed in the earlier game).


I think the system is fine, but I would prefer it is the 'keypad' saved it's state and merely reflected the result for the casting attack ~unless the developers actually intended for the runes to need manual setting each and every time the player plans to cast a spell.

Rune system comes from Dungeon Master.

Isaac wrote:I think the system is fine, but I would prefer it is the 'keypad' saved it's state and merely reflected the result for the casting attack ~unless the developers actually intended for the runes to need manual setting each and every time the player plans to cast a spell.

They probably do, as the grid remembers what the spell is when you're trying to cast but lack energy, but I agree with the general consensus that it could be streamlined some. So my suggestions are:

Left click selects runes, right clicks casts the selected spell (and if control inversion (making left click attack and right click move items from hands) is added, this also flips).
When the grid is empty, right clicking on a rune will attempt to cast that specific rune and only that specific rune.Fire, Wind, Water, and Earth gets a basic spell that only uses one rune, and the first spell you get from each skill instead has two runes (like Ice spikes), to facilitate this.

That should simplify things without moving beyond the design intent of the current system.

stirfry wrote:Omitting hotkeys creates an ergonomic challenge, not a tactical challenge.

^ Thread was over as of this post.

The "magic is complex to cast so pressing runes is realistic" argument fails because while clicking runes for your Mage the rest of the party is idle. If you only had one avatar the logic might work. In a first person perspective game, just about anything that forces you to constantly look at the UI is generally considered bad design. Its why many people hate playing healers in MMOGs because they are "playing the UI" not "playing the game".

Anyway, game is awesome and but I installed AutoHotkey and the game is 100% better for it. Just patch in hot key functionality for attacks and those that still wish to manually click everything still can.

^
Can't argue with the logic. I'd rather have slightly unfair and more challenge. That is the case here.

One thing I'd like is panicky party members like other games have done, Baldur's Gate etc. That would add even more challenge. I thought of that while getting chased down by MANY spiders and unable to prepare my spells quick enough.

Krotch ScroteGuzzle wrote:

stirfry wrote:Omitting hotkeys creates an ergonomic challenge, not a tactical challenge.

^ Thread was over as of this post.

The "magic is complex to cast so pressing runes is realistic" argument fails because while clicking runes for your Mage the rest of the party is idle. If you only had one avatar the logic might work. In a first person perspective game, just about anything that forces you to constantly look at the UI is generally considered bad design. Its why many people hate playing healers in MMOGs because they are "playing the UI" not "playing the game".

Anyway, game is awesome and but I installed AutoHotkey and the game is 100% better for it. Just patch in hot key functionality for attacks and those that still wish to manually click everything still can.

So any game that is not "push button magic happens" or some variation of that (the vancian magic system has a small bookkeeping system frontloaded on to the system for example) can't exist in video games without being bad design? Is that what you're getting at?

I love this game. It has been a long time since a game made me cry out with excitement while playing, but the UI is just plain awful. Legend of Grimrock is a 50 dollar game, turned into 15 because of the UI.

Where are my attack keys on the keyboard? Why can I only have one party member panel open at once, how about a full party window too? Map open? Game should pause. The tooltips should show the corresponding gear you have on to the gear you are looking at. Give me a UI scale option please, I find some things too small, esp magic. I have inherited tremors and my hands misclick A LOT. How about a gamma adjustment too? I play on a TV and it is really dark even with the TV adjusted, but I don't want to have to adjust it back and forth every time I play.

I want hotkeys most. I hate using my mouse to do actions because of my hands. I also end up looking at the corner more than at the game, which just doesn't make sense at all.

I suppose in your case those hotkeys would be a nice addition. I have a feeling that will be an option one day for the non-old-school mode.

Come on guys. Are you serious? Clicking is tactical and strategical? There are tons of games with easier magic UI while combat is actually more challenging. Clicking is the worst way to add challenge. And that's why I hate Japanese games. There are many to do to make games more challenging; more monsters, faster monsters, unpredictable monster behaviors, complicated magic interactions, buff and debuff... I think increasing the speed of monsters is more fun than slowing players down.

And I have seen better ways to make spell casting more challenging. Like adding a channeling time, or actually draw shapes on screen, or press keys in specific order and tempo, like A-S-ASASD-DA... You know what I mean if you played any music games.

And I really don't think combat in Grimrock has much strategy. It's easy enough even in hard.

Don't get me wrong. I love this game. The puzzles are good. Combat is fun. But magic is just not fun. And they are not that powerful either. I simply skip them.

I actually deleted my party with a Mage to make a party with 2 Fighters and 2 Rogues. I kill stuff faster and no need to click icons.

poi890poi wrote:Come on guys. Are you serious? Clicking is tactical and strategical? There are tons of games with easier magic UI while combat is actually more challenging. Clicking is the worst way to add challenge. And that's why I hate Japanese games. There are many to do to make games more challenging; more monsters, faster monsters, unpredictable monster behaviors, complicated magic interactions, buff and debuff... I think increasing the speed of monsters is more fun than slowing players down.

And I have seen better ways to make spell casting more challenging. Like adding a channeling time, or actually draw shapes on screen, or press keys in specific order and tempo, like A-S-ASASD-DA... You know what I mean if you played any music games.

And I really don't think combat in Grimrock has much strategy. It's easy enough even in hard.

Don't get me wrong. I love this game. The puzzles are good. Combat is fun. But magic is just not fun. And they are not that powerful either. I simply skip them.

sign on that