Grimrock

Curunir wrote:

xdeath wrote:antti says that this game was not designed for "certain types of people" and that they are welcome to all sorts of feedback.
This debate should have ended there, but you ignored his post and continued.

You understand this would lead to a forum swamped in "Game too hard, please add Toddler mode" and "Puzzles too annoying, you worked on Max Payne, so plz more bullet-time".

Do I want this implemented before I see an editor? No, and I believe lots of people don't as well. So we're posting our evil oppressive posts.

And the forum isn't already swamped in your "evil oppressive posts"?

I don't like that type of feedback anymore than you do, but it isn't directed at you or me.
The devs said they welcome feedback, so let them have their feedback.

Curunir wrote:

xdeath wrote:antti says that this game was not designed for "certain types of people" and that they are welcome to all sorts of feedback.
This debate should have ended there, but you ignored his post and continued.

You understand this would lead to a forum swamped in "Game too hard, please add Toddler mode" and "Puzzles too annoying, you worked on Max Payne, so plz more bullet-time".

Do I want this implemented before I see an editor? No, and I believe lots of people don't as well. So we're posting our evil oppressive posts.

If that's your concern then you should be complaining about the AH team, not people posting feedback. They're the ones compiling feedback and figuring out priorities. The only way additional feedback would push back the map editor is if they deemed it more important than the map editor, in which case, it's their fault for deeming it higher priority, not the people making suggestions.

Having your hands stuck up your crack and being unable to cope with the game on Easy is not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact.
(do you see what I did there?)

p.s. xdeath - I'm just doing what I can to make sure GRock 1.9 or GRock 2 or whatever won't be Skyrim with grid-based movement.

The only way additional feedback would push back the map editor is if they deemed it more important than the map editor, in which case, it's their fault for deeming it higher priority, not the people making suggestions.

If it's the only feedback they're getting, of course it will push back a map editor, you big doofus!

Curunir wrote: You understand this would lead to a forum swamped in "Game too hard, please add Toddler mode" and "Puzzles too annoying, you worked on Max Payne, so plz more bullet-time".

If thats what the devs have asked us to do, then yes. Its up to them. Their game, their forums.

Curunir wrote: p.s. xdeath - I'm just doing what I can to make sure GRock 1.9 or GRock 2 or whatever won't be Skyrim with grid-based movement.

I dunno, that could be a fun challenge lol

There is an aspect here that hasnt yet been fully raised, but I think it valid and important.

*disclaimer* This may come across as elitist or arrogant, but I dont see it that way I see it as preservationist if nothing else. It also suggests a causality which can be argued against all I can say to counter that point is by asking people to look at the "evolution" of a few genres, those being FPS, RPG and Adventure Games.

My other concern regarding the altering of the puzzle difficulty is about lowering the watermark regarding the challenge and/or complexity of the puzzles.
If the difficulty allows for simpler puzzles and a wider appeal, you get new customers which on one hand is great. More consumers, more money, more games.
On the other hand you change your demographic and therefore the expectations of your audience. Mainly because the vast majority of gamers have either lower expectations, or a require an easier or less complex game experience. Any developer and/or publisher wants to appeal to their fanbase and as such will change the core design targets to meet the majority expectations. As a result you get progressively easier and more homogeneous games. Look at Dragon Age II compared to Origins, or the CoD franchise, or the Telltale games vs the Lucasarts adventure games.
Look at Bioshock it was applauded at being ground breaking and revolutionary except that it not much more than a reskin of System Shock 2 with a lower difficulty, stripped back RPG elements, more fogiving enemies and an immortal protagonist. The shift in the primary market (going from PC to Console in this case) meant that expectations for the masses was lower than those who played SS2. Bioshock is by no means a bad game, in fact its a great game. It is also inferior to a game they made almost a decade earlier.

There is always a shift in focus when you try to appeal to those outside of the core or niche market.

hi,

Im 42 and dungeon crawlers are my favorites. LOG is a perfect game and handle it without problems only one time i take a look into hint forum.

Maybe a good solution to short cut puzzles for user is to go a little bit DM-CSB way and include a Oracle Room.
So i user can ask the oracle during the game and turn on/off the puzzle for this room.

This thread has gotten HUGE, but I'd like to throw an "I agree in there" Without having to read the 11 pages. AH did an amazing job and all the whiners can play something else. Or make their own game if they think they're such great game devs.

Curunir wrote:Having your hands stuck up your crack and being unable to cope with the game on Easy is not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact.
(do you see what I did there?)

p.s. xdeath - I'm just doing what I can to make sure GRock 1.9 or GRock 2 or whatever won't be Skyrim with grid-based movement.

The only way additional feedback would push back the map editor is if they deemed it more important than the map editor, in which case, it's their fault for deeming it higher priority, not the people making suggestions.

If it's the only feedback they're getting, of course it will push back a map editor, you big doofus!

So we agree. Your feedback is important to YOU to try to get what YOU want from the devs, our feedback is important to US to try to get what WE want from the devs. Lets all just carry on giving feedback and stop being so rude about others different opinions. Everyone can make their points without sniping at others - just explain what you want. Noone else ever needs to be mentioned.

If offering suggestions/ideas is 'whining', I'm not quite sure how we are supposed to give AH the feedback they desire without it.....

Curunir wrote:p.s. xdeath - I'm just doing what I can to make sure GRock 1.9 or GRock 2 or whatever won't be Skyrim with grid-based movement.

Which brings me back to the developers aren't stupid. They know the direction they want to take the game.

And how does the toddler mode, Max Payne bullet time you were going on about relate to "Skyrim with grid based movement"?

Don't answer that, you guys are back told the old trick of changing your stance mid debate.