Grimrock

Dr.Disaster wrote:

BouH wrote:Moskito annoys alot, they are quick and randomly moving but that was ok until when I throw fireball in while they atacked, the issue is only my party was damaged, so for moskitos I could use only fireburst. Issue is that you always keep some fireball or meteor storm ready and each time you need to change it. Sorry for my English.

I count that as a leason to learn which attacks should not be used in close combat.

In LoG ranged spells are cast and launched on the party's tile to hit a target ahead. Now in LoG2 several monsters are able to enter (new feature!) the party's tile and attack them there which can result in the party tile being the target tile for ranged spells. Since pretty much all spells do AoE damage to the target tile it's good advice to skip ranged spells when fighting specific monsters in close combat.

Why then moskitos aren't damaged at all only party?

badhabit wrote:And, that these are exactly the same things I experienced with Log1 years ago... and updated the HW, but will not this time.

Going from a HD36x0 (6 year old mainstream gpu) to a HD5670 (4 year old mainstream gpu) was a relatively massive update but when you did that swap somewhere during the last 2 years it was already outdated.

BouH wrote: Why then moskitos aren't damaged at all only party?

They aren't getting damaged because the attack that moves them into the party's tile causes a glitch where the enemy registers in the same tile as the party (which is causing your spell to start in your tile instead of the tile in front of you) but the hitbox for the enemy is still in the tile the enemy is actually in. So your spell is detonating against your party. The same thing happens if you cast a spell like fireball while moving, you can run into it and hurt yourself. The game doesn't distinguish 'friendly fire.'

Yes. It has happened to me a lot of times, specially during frantic fights.

Dr.Disaster wrote:In LoG ranged spells are cast and launched on the party's tile to hit a target ahead. Now in LoG2 several monsters are able to enter (new feature!) the party's tile and attack them there which can result in the party tile being the target tile for ranged spells. Since pretty much all spells do AoE damage to the target tile it's good advice to skip ranged spells when fighting specific monsters in close combat.

This is wrong. Monster capsules entering the party's tile is not a new feature; it happened in LoG1 with spiders. The monster entity itself is still in the other tile, which is an important distinction since there are a lot of things that care about the monster's position but seemingly not the capsule (e.g. melee attacks and whether something can move into the tile).

Anurias wrote:They aren't getting damaged because the attack that moves them into the party's tile causes a glitch where the enemy registers in the same tile as the party (which is causing your spell to start in your tile instead of the tile in front of you) but the hitbox for the enemy is still in the tile the enemy is actually in.

This is literally the opposite of what happens. The "hitbox" is in the party's tile, the monster "registers" as being in its original tile.

If you don't believe me, try this: dodge a xeloroid's melee attack, and while it's still attacking, throw a missile through its original tile and make a melee attack on that tile too. The melee attack will connect, the missile will not. The xeloroid entity is still in the original tile, but the capsule is mostly in the tile in front of it.



Now, there IS a new feature where monsters can fully enter the party's tile; it's used for rat swarms. It also has absolutely nothing to do with this behaviour.

eLPuSHeR wrote:Yes. It has happened to me a lot of times, specially during frantic fights.

Yesterday I noticed a different effect: if you move frantically while casting some spell, it may be cast in a 90º angle. Weird to say the least.

First off, which enemy is a 'xeloroid'? Second, I dodged lots of melee attacks that looked like the enemy was moving into the space where the party was even though the enemy technically was still in the original tile, turned and attacked the tile I was standing in where the enemy appeared to be because of the attack and nothing happened. However, if I attacked the 'empty' tile where the enemy was attacking from I hit. So I know from actually doing it that what I described is accurate. Attacks still have to go to the original tile to hit, not where the monster appears to be while it is performing its attack.

Anurias wrote:First off, which enemy is a 'xeloroid'?

The flying blue thing with one eye that shoots lightning bolts.

Anurias wrote:Second, I dodged lots of melee attacks that looked like the enemy was moving into the space where the party was even though the enemy technically was still in the original tile, turned and attacked the tile I was standing in where the enemy appeared to be because of the attack and nothing happened. However, if I attacked the 'empty' tile where the enemy was attacking from I hit. So I know from actually doing it that what I described is accurate. Attacks still have to go to the original tile to hit, not where the monster appears to be while it is performing its attack.

Okay, I will try to explain it again in a simpler way.
Every monster in Grimrock - both 1 and 2 - has a collision box attached to its model that determines its collisions with projectiles. Most GameObjects in Grimrock 2, and entities in Grimrock 1, have a position on the grid in the game world.
When most monsters move or attack, the animation of the model moves the collision box. In some cases - such as with xeloroids, mosquitoes, and spiders - it moves the box all the way into the party's tile.
When monsters attack, their position on the grid normally DOES NOT CHANGE. Crowerns in Grimrock 1 move forward during their attack (if they're not blocked), but those are an exception.
Projectiles - thrown/fired missiles, projectile spells, and firearm attacks - care about the collision box.
Melee attacks and tile damagers (explosions, ice shards, etc) do not appear to care about it; they seem to only care about the position on the grid.
Thus, a projectile attack can pass through the tile on the grid that a xeloroid is on, if it's in the middle of an attack, since its collision box will mostly be in another tile. The reverse is true of melee attacks and explosions: if you attack the tile on the grid that the attacking xeloroid's GameObject is on, you'll connect. If you attack the tile that most of its collision box is in, you won't.

This is why the counterintuitive result occurs when you use a bomb/fireball/etc against an attacking mosquito swarm/xeloroid/spider. The collision box is inside the party's tile, so the bomb or fireball, which is a projectile, will explode inside the party's tile. But the monster GameObject is still in the tile in front of the party, so the resulting explosion on the party's tile won't damage the monster.

edit: Just to be clear, I determined all of this from observation. I first discovered it with LoG1 spiders.