Random Itemization ?

[quester99]

To put randomization in Legend of Grimlock would kill the spirit and intent of the game design. It is about puzzles and questing, not loot.

Nobody said they wanted randomly-generated loot with a million modifiers etc. Having different gear show up in different places and different enemies in different spots would add to replay value and would make each play-through a little different, potentially requiring different character builds depending on what items you find.

But different gear in different locations *is* randomization. For replay value they are releasing a level editor! That is amazing.

[quester99]

Dungeon Master was a huge game. I lost weekends to that game, looking up bleary eyed on Monday morning and seeing a sea of pizza crusts and empty beer bottles.

Grimrock is like a 15 hour game, right? It'd be nice if you could replay it and not know that the first weapon you get is going to be a mace. Maybe in a replay you'd find a sword first, or something.

No one is asking for Superior Flames Boots of Mana Drain or anything. And no one is asking for random dungeon layouts or action-RPG gameplay.

Thanks for the condescending attitude, though. Really helps the community feel more 'modern.'

@pasmith - I am sorry if I came across as condescending. That truly hurt my feelings to think I came across that way. I am not trying to dismiss your opinions on the development of the game. To me a Dungeon Master fan (as expressed with the avatar image) would hope to retain the core gameplay.

To me (just my opinion) Grimrock is a 15 hour game for 14 bucks. It is an homage to Dungeon Master. I find great value in its current expression.

It will have endless replayability via map editors and *hopefully* graphics mods.

No offense was meant by my post. I was trying to convey my remembrance of the traditional Dungeon Master style of gameplay and how appreciative I am of the developers to remain true to it.

If they decide to change it going forward then that is their choice. I am just casting my 'vote' for the traditional gameplay style.

To me the gameplay is *true* to the original subject matter. I think changing it would dilute its impact on old school fans. ymmv. Everyone's opinion is valuable. Peace.

[Halk]

To put randomization in Legend of Grimlock would kill the spirit and intent of the game design. It is about puzzles and questing, not loot.

Nobody said they wanted randomly-generated loot with a million modifiers etc. Having different gear show up in different places and different enemies in different spots would add to replay value and would make each play-through a little different, potentially requiring different character builds depending on what items you find.

But different gear in different locations *is* randomization. For replay value they are releasing a level editor! That is amazing.

I'm trying to establish a difference between finding the same items in total across the dungeon and finding 15 daggers one time and none the next.

Specific items in specific places.
Specific items in semi-random places.
Random items in random places.

That's the three possibilities, the first and last are by far the most common, but the middle one I've seen before and it's not bad.

In fact I've just remembered... Chaos Strikes Back did it. Take that!

[sea]

There is something to be said for designing a game around the player having specific gear and capabilities at different spots... I mean, it's common for just about every genre and is basically the entire central mechanic that makes Zelda, Metroid etc. tick. I will say that Grimrock's saving grace here is that it's primarily focused on puzzles, exploration and atmosphere. The combat is there, but it's mostly to add a threat to the exploration and give some variety to the gameplay... if there was a greater focus on combat I would say the lack of random items would be a major flaw (since items = combat capabilities), but in Grimrock it's merely a "they probably should have done it but it doesn't really hurt the game too much" sort of thing.

That said, I would have liked to see more variety in the spell combos you find. I realize with the Internet and repeat plays you're supposed to figure them out on your own, but it'd be nice if I didn't feel pressured into Earth or Fire Magic right from the start simply because it's all the game shows off... by the time you're invested in those trees so your mages stop being dead weight and you start to learn more interesting spells, you're locked out of the them anyway.

[Nwardezir]

@Nwardezir - With your avatar image I can't believe you want random loot. Are you really DM old school or is that image a fake? Seriously? Random loot for Dungeon Master gameplay? Wow.

Read it again, I don't want random loot, I want random itemization, it's the exact title of this thread.

I don't want "flaming boots of the might warrior" or "wicked belt of the thousand blossoms".

It's just, when in reach that room where you will always find a sword, I'll be happy instead to find an axe, or a mace something that surprises me a little.
It's all about replayability, not loot.

[quester99]

@Nwardezir - With your avatar image I can't believe you want random loot. Are you really DM old school or is that image a fake? Seriously? Random loot for Dungeon Master gameplay? Wow.

Read it again, I don't want random loot, I want random itemization, it's the exact title of this thread.

I don't want "flaming boots of the might warrior" or "wicked belt of the thousand blossoms".

It's just, when in reach that room where you will always find a sword, I'll be happy instead to find an axe, or a mace something that surprises me a little.
It's all about replayability, not loot.

Ah ok, sorry I should have read that better.

Still there is some security in knowing where everything is in DM/Grimrock. It is the type of game where I can memorize and know where everything is and I like that about this type of game. It is a personal preference of course and I can surely see and respect your point of view also.

So I have to just respectfully agree to disagree about the random items and leave it at that. In any case I think the map editor will give everyone as much replayability as they can handle