Grimrock

Saice wrote:The way I use special attacks is I fire off everyone in the party then charge the special while everyone is on cool down. It works well enough that I use specials now and then. But yeah if you try to use more then one special attack it just gets counter productive.

And yeah it is not worth taking a fighter for the bouns at all. Maybe if he had a charge up boost so he could fire them off faster instead of cheaper he would be worth it.

But fighter does fire them off faster special attacks with melee weapons take half the time to build up and cost 25% less energy)

steelsoldier wrote:

Saice wrote:The way I use special attacks is I fire off everyone in the party then charge the special while everyone is on cool down. It works well enough that I use specials now and then. But yeah if you try to use more then one special attack it just gets counter productive.

And yeah it is not worth taking a fighter for the bouns at all. Maybe if he had a charge up boost so he could fire them off faster instead of cheaper he would be worth it.

But fighter does fire them off faster special attacks with melee weapons take half the time to build up and cost 25% less energy)

Oh my bad I thought it was just the energy discount. You really don't feel that 50% cast speed then. So yeah I guess the fighter is just plan bad.

Saice wrote:Oh my bad I thought it was just the energy discount. You really don't feel that 50% cast speed then. So yeah I guess the fighter is just plan bad.

Fighter class would have been far more useful if it had lower cooldown using all melee weapons, then I would consider it, otherwise you are just better off picking a Barbarian and just do massive damage with your normal attacks without worrying about charging at all

steelsoldier wrote:

Saice wrote:Oh my bad I thought it was just the energy discount. You really don't feel that 50% cast speed then. So yeah I guess the fighter is just plan bad.

Fighter class would have been far more useful if it had lower cooldown using all melee weapons, then I would consider it, otherwise you are just better off picking a Barbarian and just do massive damage with your normal attacks without worrying about charging at all

yeah that is what I did in my current party took a knight and barb as my front liners.

I did the first two areas a few times with different classes before setting up my current party for the LP I'm working on.

I have to say fighter was really bad compared to basically every other front liner. Heck even a rouge works better front line. The Fighter just came out vary Meh.

Saice wrote:I have to say fighter was really bad compared to basically every other front liner. Heck even a rouge works better front line. The Fighter just came out vary Meh.

The thing that I am expecting is, if they address the charge issue and make it click to charge and click to release, it could eventually possibly fix the issues that the FIghter has and make it more on par with the Barbarian and Knight classes.

Whoever I am not sure if the Fighter´s 50% less charge time and 25% energy consumption makes up for the stats he doesnt get access to that the other classes do, due to the issue that as soon as you are out of energy, you just become a character that does far less than what the other melee classes do in the first place.

That's what I've got - a devastatingly powerful minotaur barbarian, a tanky knight, and a dual-wielding backrow rogue. I forgot that fighters have a faster charging time, which probably explains why my characters take so long to charge - they already do so much damage with regular attacks, and can easily attack twice each (or at least be started on the second attack) in the time it takes to charge up one special attack, that the double damage specials are very underwhelming.

Leech seems nice in theory, but a potion of healing is faster, heals more, never misses, and doesn't take an action, meaning you can still attack right away after drinking it, though it does consume the potion. I have yet to brew a single potion on my play-through so far, and my pack is filled to the brim with ingredients and I don't even have an alchemist, but I'm only on Normal difficulty, so I can't say if leech is worth using to save a potion or not under certain circumstances.

Fighter and Knight both need some buffs. The Knight is marginally better than the Fighter but still isn't worth using. Both are made redundant by the superior Barbarian, who beats them easily at both tanking and killing stuff. Barb is also an amazing ranged class if you use throwing weapons.

Even if the fighter could cast special moves instantly with no charging at all he would still not be as good.

sergregor wrote:Fighter and Knight both need some serious buffs. They're both made redundant by the superior Barbarian, who beats them easily at both tanking and killing stuff.

Na the knight works out well actually. That +1 protection really adds up and now that the +50% evasion from sheilds works a Dex based Knight ends up perty nice once he gets some levels in. True the barbarian will ALWAYS be the king of melee damage but the knight can hold his own and tank on par with the Barb hes just not as good early game as the Barb is hes more a mid to late game Tank.

But if you want to min max the game you would just have to Barbarians up front and a Wizard and Alchemist in the back. Alchemist as a 2nd caster (ignore firearms) and herb grower.

And yeah it is not worth taking a fighter for the bouns at all. Maybe if he had a charge up boost so he could fire them off faster instead of cheaper he would be worth it.

I disagree. That energy cost reduction was the difference between my fighter using Bane's charge once, or twice. It pretty much used half his energy each time.
I used my fighter's charge attack frequently, and he probably drank as many if not more mana potions than my battle mage (which is funny, my battle mage probably had more strength than willpower)

Saice wrote: That +1 protection really adds up

So does +3 HP and +1 strength per level. Even without the strength taken into account I'm pretty confident that the +65 total HP by level 15 is going to be far better than +15 protection.

and now that the +50% evasion from sheilds

This amounts to what over the course of the game, 2-5 extra protection? Negligible difference. Again, I'd rather just have more HP.

the knight can hold his own and tank on par with the Barb

If his only strength is that he can tank "on par" with Barb then why not just play Barb? I dunno, I'm just not seeing it I guess. Knights may become somewhat less crappy later on but not enough to justify picking one over a barb. I'll have to figure out a way to properly theorycraft in this game and do the math but I suspect the Knight will never reach a point where his extra protection actually outweighs the extra HP he'd have gotten as a Barb, especially when enemies seem to have high amounts of armor penetration in this game. Not to mention that +13-15 strength is a ridiculously big difference. Your enemies will go down that much faster which will in turn make you survive longer.

But if you want to min max the game you would just have to Barbarians up front and a Wizard and Alchemist in the back. Alchemist as a 2nd caster (ignore firearms) and herb grower.

That's pretty much my party except I used a Battle Mage instead of a Wizard and my Alchemist uses Missile Weapons.