Any reason to choose wizard over battlemage?

[Taem]

I'm slightly confused... the new beta patch says the ToolTip was wrong, and that the extra willpower bonus per level is not added in. Does that mean Wizards, as they stand now, are pointless to take when compared to a Battlemage? That's what I'm gathering from what's being said here, and what the new patch has clarified. I just started my first party last night and have only gained one level each, once with a human wizard with fast learner for quick leveling, and if I'm going to reset, now would be the time to do so.

[Dr.Disaster]

I'm slightly confused... the new beta patch says the ToolTip was wrong, and that the extra willpower bonus per level is not added in. Does that mean Wizards, as they stand now, are pointless to take when compared to a Battlemage? That's what I'm gathering from what's being said here, and what the new patch has clarified. I just started my first party last night and have only gained one level each, once with a human wizard with fast learner for quick leveling, and if I'm going to reset, now would be the time to do so.

On the contrary. Wizards will be even more powerful now due to a higher Wisdom stat granting more energy regeneration. More energy means more spells cast, more regneration means even more spells cast and more spells cast means more damage dealt.

My next party will be an all mage party with 2 Battlemages in front and 2 Wizards in back. This will tell how good they perform.

[redsocialknight]

Willpower aside, the Wizard does have higher starting Energy and Energy per level. At level ten, a Battle Mage will have 95 Energy and a Wizard will have 133.

For a back row character, Wizard still seems the clear choice: I'd rather have the extra energy than either trade it for HP or wear armor.

And the regeneration effects of willpower may end up being significant -- it's hard to judge that clearly at this point.

[Jaelus]

Any character can cast spells if you take spells (granted only the Wizard and Battle Mage can cast spells without an orb/staff). The classes basically come down to the abilities.

The question is whether to take a Battle Mage or a Knight for a front line fighter, not whether to take a Battle Mage or a Wizard for a back line caster. The Wizard is the superior back line caster. Period. Look at what I'm saying here.

Knight:
HP 60 (7 per level)
Energy 30 (3 per level)
- Weight of equipped armor is reduced by 50%.
- Protection +1 point per level.
- Evasion bonus of equipped shields is increased by 50%.

Battle Mage:
HP 50 (5 per level)
Energy 50 (5 per level)
- Weight of equipped armor is reduced by 50%.
- Gain Protection +10 and Resist All +10 when equipped with a staff or an orb.
- Can cast spells with their bare hands.

A Battle Mage is a Knight with a little more energy and a little less health that has +10 Protection/+10 Resist All with an off-hand orb/staff instead of the +1 Protection per level and Evasion shield bonus. It is intended to be like a Paladin. A sword in one hand and an orb in the other. It can cast early due to the bare hands class feature, but once you find an orb this is irrelevant. The Battle Mage is a front row tank intended to be balanced between melee and some spells. The Insectoid makes a great Battle Mage since the Chitin Armor trait gives additional protection for the front line and the Quick trait increases their melee attack speed. They also get bonuses to STR and WIL, which happens to coincide with the balanced melee/spells.

Wizard:
HP 30 (3 per level)
Energy 70 (7 per level)
- Can cast spells with bare hands.
- Willpower +2.

The Wizard doesn't need anywhere near the health or survivability of a front row character. He sits in the back row casting. The only relevant points are Willpower and Energy, and this class has them in spades. If you need a back row dedicated caster it's a Wizard. Period. The only other big benefit would be to be a Human for the racial traits. 20% more EXP and an extra skill point give your party access to the spells faster.

[redsocialknight]

Any character can cast spells if you take spells (granted only the Wizard and Battle Mage can cast spells without an orb/staff).

Yes, but that's not just an equipment requirement -- it's a build requirement. Unless there's one I haven't run across yet, even the most basic staff requires at least one level in the Concentration skill -- so that's a pretty tight constraint on how a non-Wizard magic-user can be put together.

[Jaelus]

True, but are you really going to make a caster without any ranks in Concentration anyway? Concentration is required to cast a ton of the spells, not to mention the utility.

A lot of people seem to be opting for an Alchemist as their caster. Herb duplication is very powerful but firearms are lackluster so Alchemist becomes an easy archer or spellcaster.

[Saice]

Any character can cast spells if you take spells (granted only the Wizard and Battle Mage can cast spells without an orb/staff).

Yes, but that's not just an equipment requirement -- it's a build requirement. Unless there's one I haven't run across yet, even the most basic staff requires at least one level in the Concentration skill -- so that's a pretty tight constraint on how a non-Wizard magic-user can be put together.

I would not count 1 point in a skill a "pretty tight constraint" when skills cap at 5 and you can vary easly hit level 15 over the course of the game. Add to that to cast every single spell in the game only takes 20 skill points total while many of them only requiring 3 points in relevant skills.

[Dr.Disaster]

I would not count 1 point in a skill a "pretty tight constraint" when skills cap at 5 and you can vary easly hit level 15 over the course of the game. Add to that to cast every single spell in the game only takes 20 skill points total while many of them only requiring 3 points in relevant skills.

Level 15 is not easly hit. It requires to complete everything(!) in the game plus(!) some additional grinding. When you are planning builds better go with level 13 characters in the end which makes 15 skill points for most characters.

[redsocialknight]

to cast every single spell in the game only takes 20 skill points total

Has anyone found skill books in the game yet?

Because otherwise, most characters are likely to end up with about 16 total when they complete the game -- the bulk of the game will be played with far fewer than that

A single skill point is the reward for one entire level. So yes, a single skill point is a high cost for a hybrid build that already needs to spend points in a couple of different places.

[Saice]

I would not count 1 point in a skill a "pretty tight constraint" when skills cap at 5 and you can vary easly hit level 15 over the course of the game. Add to that to cast every single spell in the game only takes 20 skill points total while many of them only requiring 3 points in relevant skills.

Level 15 is not easly hit. It requires to complete everything(!) in the game plus(!) some additional grinding. When you are planning builds better go with level 13 characters in the end which makes 15 skill points for most characters.

Even so 1 point to have a 2nd caster is not all that much. Heck 1 Conc and 1 Fire would make it a nice back up caster. As long your not using it to replace a real caster I don't see how a few points is going to be a huge deal in the long run.

Mind you a lot of the spells can be cast with only a few points and since some of them need concentration anyways it is not like that 1 point you need to use a wand is wasted as it is a point you are going to have to use anyways. AND any caster should have conc 3 just for the 25% energy regen boost. So really in every sense of the way sending 1 point to use a wand is a total non issue for any caster build.