Grimrock

antti wrote:

owl wrote:Dear Legend of Grimrock creators,

I understand modders suggesting beta access to your game, but please, please do not consider putting Legend of Grimrock II on Steam's early access.

I signed up for an account today just to say this one thing: please, do not go to that hideous pit of hatred that is early access.

We'll use Steam keys for closed beta testing but the Steam early access thing is not in our plans. I haven't been following how the early access games are doing myself but I take it that there's some issues there?

Hi antti, thanks for the response! I'm glad to hear that you do not have plans for early access on Steam. It seems to me that many Steam users do not understand the idea behind early access and complain that they have bought incomplete, bug-filled games and all that ensues from that is users fighting with developers over the state of the game through inflammatory posts. In the end, I think it ruins the games and drives away many potential buyers.

Here is my personal take/rant on early access: I understand that some people want to take part in the process of making a game; good for them. For me, I don't want to be part of the process. If I wanted that I'd make a game myself. Some may enjoy early access, so be it. I want to buy a game and be thrilled by the game and enjoy the game as the developers intended and as the developers made the game. It seems that with so much input from the community on what is good, on what is bad, leads to nothing but complaining and arguing on Steam Early Access forums. Forums end up being locked to game owners only further driving away interested buyers. Closed betas are a much better option.

As for input into the artistic process, I don't want to tell Roger Waters what music to write or how to play it; I want him to play what he wants and I will either enjoy it or not. If I do not like Roger Waters' new output, then it's not my place to try to force him to write music in a different way or like he used to write it. I guess it comes down to artistic output and how you view the artistic process. I, as a consumer of the artistic output of others, do not want to be a part of the process. I want to be a consumer of the process. Sorry, I could probably go on for a long while yet, but what I want to say is: I am definitely looking forward to Legend of Grimrock II and trust that the developers will make a great product that will wow gamers and bring them into new and fantastical worlds.

@Leki, yes I agree.

We might also be interested to see a weekly video blog of the AH team to see the LoG2 progress...

Frenchie wrote:We might also be interested to see a weekly video blog of the AH team to see the LoG2 progress...

It's not video nor weekly but there's that : http://www.grimrock.net/

Early access to the game itself is neither a good idea for the developers, nor desirable for the community. What would be immensely desirable is a release of some (not all, just examples) assets to give modders an idea of the proportions that new entity types will be in, so they can start work on mods before release. Coupled with an early release of the editor would be a brilliant move both from a marketing prospective from AH's view (huge customer created hype) and for modders for obvious reasons.

Imagine the reviews when they point out not just the game itself, but all the totally custom content that is being developed to be available more or less on release.

BuzzJ wrote:Early access to the game itself is neither a good idea for the developers, nor desirable for the community.

Depends a lot on the game. For Grimrock, I doubt there's much benefit.. but let's say if you were to make a massively multiplayer realistic WW2 flight sim, that might benefit a lot from an enthusiastic group of early-access users.

Hi

I newbie here. I have to disagree to a Beta version of this game. I have seen many beta versions of games in the past and you guessed it they suxed lol. Soo in saying that have fun yall lol. I no my cruxifixion cross is here some where .LOL.

I'm glad there won't be an early access. Better to release the game when it's done than give a bad impression.

Now that I have seen the 'early access culture' grow a little the more I agree with Sol_HSA's opinion. For single player games where the main focus is on a campaign I think early access does more damage than good. If you purchase a game in early access, when only 50% is available - you have to really love the game to come back and play it again at full release. Apart from the die-hard fans, you end up with a bunch of personal reviews based on the Beta of a game. On top of this, the early access launch tends to hide the official launch of the game - as a significant number of people have bought it already.

Now, for a game with a repeatable game play element - such as an online MP game (either PvP or any online game), I think early access could be more useful. For a game like Battlefield for instance, a sitting involves a 20-minute battle - at the end of which, you do it all again. In this model, if the game just keeps getting better and better until the devs are really happy with it - that's got to be a good thing.

Generally, I think I would rather play most games at the official release. I do think early access could be used better across the board - for instance, be clear that it's only 2-3 months of early access (not indefinite, like a lot of games) and I think it could even work if there were a limited number available (1000 seats).

Last but not least, the way it could possibly be good for LoG2 is if it came out with the dungeon editor and perhaps a mini-prelude campaign (of 3 dungeon levels say) a definite 8-weeks before the official launch say. You could skip the prelude when playing the full release later and people could get started making custom dungeons before release. I'm not suggesting that this would be a good idea, but I think it would be the best way LoG2 could use early access if they decided too.

antti wrote:

owl wrote:Dear Legend of Grimrock creators,

I understand modders suggesting beta access to your game, but please, please do not consider putting Legend of Grimrock II on Steam's early access.

I signed up for an account today just to say this one thing: please, do not go to that hideous pit of hatred that is early access.

We'll use Steam keys for closed beta testing but the Steam early access thing is not in our plans. I haven't been following how the early access games are doing myself but I take it that there's some issues there?

People on Steam don't seem to understand early access at all. I've explained time and time again to them that it's the same thing as a preorder, they get the full game upon actual release, just with the added ability to play the game in an early state. They just don't get it though, and constantly whine about bugs, game progress, how much of a ripoff it is (despite getting a copy of the completed game), and so on.

I begged InExile not to go early access with Wasteland 2... they didn't listen. Now the game forum is crawling with children constantly whining about the state of the game, calling for refunds, attacking the devs, giving bad 'reviews', etc. One particularly nasty thread was attacking the devs for taking a weekend off, despite the fact it's the first one they've had in about four months. It's just a cesspool of hate, ignorance, and filth (like the US congress but better), and ultimately I think it's probably done more harm than good for some games.

Early Access is a good idea, ruined by a terrible community.

Rednecksith wrote:I begged InExile not to go early access with Wasteland 2... ultimately I think it's probably done more harm than good for some games.

On a related subject, I feel the early demo directly contributed to the failure of Kingdoms of Amalur. I was all set to buy the game and even had it pre-ordered until I played the demo and wasn't impressed at all, leading me to cancel the pre-order.

Daniel.